Season 4, Episode 150 : Vijay Eswaran

Will Richardson 00:05
Welcome to the Green Element Podcast, where we meet business leaders and innovators transforming their operations to be more environmentally and socially sustainable, and in the process help you on your sustainability journey. I'm your host Will Richardson. Our guest today was named as one of Asia's top 50 philanthropists by Forbes and has received a Lifetime Achievement Award for regional philanthropy, in recognition of his outstanding contribution to the Asian community, Association of Southeast Asian Nations. He is also on the advisory board of the World Economic Forum's Global Growth Companies, and is the Executive Chairman of the QI Group of Companies. Welcome Vijay Eswaran to the Green Element Podcast. You have an amazing and impressive and extensive list of credentials, and you've been involved in so many incredible projects to empower people and support the environment.

Vijay Eswaran 01:03
Morning Will. Well, to begin with the QI Group of Companies is a diversified multinational. It is present around the world through businesses interested in ecommerce, direct selling, education, travel, leisure, lifestyle, and retail. So basically, we have built over the last 23 years or so a conglomerate that, you know, three, sorry, four or five continents. So in a sense, we began here in Asia, and out of all our activities, at first glance may be rather varied and diverse. The common thread that runs through our businesses is that each entity is driven by a desire to make positive social impact, and why are we not involved in local communities working towards making a difference in the world around us. We have basically around 10 businesses in different parts of the world. 2000 people across Asia, Europe, Africa, and the Middle East, we are pretty diverse. And last I checked, we have close to 40 different nationalities working in the group. And they speak amongst themselves, somewhere around 50 different languages. So when we actually get together, it's like a mini United Nations [laughs].

Will Richardson 02:39
[Laughs] That would be amazing.

Vijay Eswaran 02:40
It is, it is.

Will Richardson 02:42
It's a bit like travelling, but without leaving your own country, but constantly because you'll be speaking to people from different cultures. And that's, that's the most exciting part about travelling isn't it? It's about learning about people's cultures and learning about people and how they interact with each other.

Vijay Eswaran 03:00
And in today's times what's really fascinating is like, you know, it's all about zoom calls and zoom conferences and zoom meetings. And in some sense, we have actually become a lot closer with the current situation, where we are talking to each other much more, and perhaps, you know, more swiftly. But it is fascinating to see how all of these various cultural differences in this hegemony come together when we need to. That's the most important thing, I think.

Will Richardson 03:35
We know that there are cultural differences within meetings, I'm kind of veering off on a tangent now, but when you meet people face to face, so there's certain etiquette that you have to do between each cultures, and there's a way of communicating to each other. Now, as someone that speaks to people in lots and lots of different countries all the time, is it as pronounced that difference in cultures on zoom calls? Or is it much more universal?

Vijay Eswaran 04:05
It is a little bit about, okay, the differences are and the fact is that translation, you know, happens simultaneously, and it does slow down the process. I have to wait, you know, maybe 30 seconds after to see whether the joke had an impact or not [laughs]. And, you know, it does slow things down somewhat. But having said that, at the same time, what I have realised is people laugh about the same things, they cry about the same things, they feel about the same things. And ultimately, that's what you know, makes us come together. So I reached out to say, common threat, our planet, our world, our environment, and our future, which is basically our kids. And that sense of the word, I usually find a common playing field, a common platform where we can meet and talk.

Will Richardson 05:09
That makes sense. So where does your passion for sustainable development come from?

Vijay Eswaran 05:17
Well, basically, you know, when we started the company we were pondering as to, because we wanted to kind of find a business icon, per say, someone that was respected across the world. And someone that, in a sense, could lead our initiatives. And in that sense of the word, we were identifying a number of people ranging from Mother Teresa, Mandela, Martin Luther King, and the likes, we eventually settled on Mahatma Gandhi. And why Gandhi? Because Gandhi actually went back to the roots, he went back, you know, essentially, to weaving his own clothing for a start, you cannot get more sustainable than that. And he was a man who basically believed in reviving the culture of the villages, and these are things that we found a common thread in. And interestingly enough, you know, I've travelled across most of Africa, so perhaps in Europe, and you know, even Central Asia and the like, there is no country I've been to, who doesn't recognise the man.

Will Richardson 06:32
Yeah.

Vijay Eswaran 06:32
And what's unique about him, he wasn't a general, he wasn't a politician, he belonged to no particular, you know, political train of thought, he never held a position. He didn't even accept citizenship in India, when India was formed, because he was at that point, he was in a state where he didn't want to accept the partition. So all of these factors made him a man of the vote, the man of the millennium, so to speak. Now, what we identified from him was in the fact that we need to go back to our roots, one of his most famous statements that still rings my ears, he says, I welcome the wind from every corner of the boat, every window in my house will be open to receive winds from all corners of the world, but my feet will be remained imprinted in my motherland. So in that sense, we have tried to do things in that way. Gandhi was a visionary, and an advocate for sustainability and social justice. So there are issues that we have taken this relevant, you know, it's 100 years ago, and during his time, but he was the original poster for sustainability and the message, I think, went viral during his lifetime. So, you know, these are the key factors. But when my partners and I began this company, we all came from different countries. And so Gandhi became an rallying point, because we came from different faiths, different cultures. And when we first came together, and we started discussing our, you know, interests, Gandhi was someone we all agreed upon. So we actually picked up a little parable, which was when Gandhi was in his ashram in South Africa, in the early part of his career, so to speak, he had volunteers come from all over, to join his fight for freedom, so to speak. And what I remember from the stories that a young man turned up, and he was basically working, cleaning out the latrine, the outdoor toilets in the ashram, and Gandhi came across him and said so who are you young man, you're a new face? And all that, so the guy goes, I just left my degree in Engineering to come over here and serve you, I'm here to just basically, you know, I want to be able to sacrifice or give my life in your service. So he looked at him, he says, all that sounds great. But you see, skipping letterings I get a lot of those guys. You know that sweepers all of that. First, you need to go out there and be the best person you can be, then bring those skill sets to me, because I need lawyers, engineers, I need professionals. So what he said in his final words was, young man, go raise yourself, then together, we can help mankind. So I took those words, which is raise yourself to help mankind and that actually stood for our slogan, which has become our RYTHM: raise yourself to help mankind. So RYTHM has become our passion and has become our spirit, has become our driving force and in every office, in 42 different offices across the world, you will find RYTHM as our slogan and that has driven us, that is our superpower.

Will Richardson 10:09
And what do you consider to be the biggest impact or biggest success of the RYTHM Foundation?

Vijay Eswaran 10:17
Well, I think, you know, we started off just trying to make a difference in the lives of the people around us. And we began to do this around three pillars of sustainability that have become our byword, so to speak. Our staff are involved in volunteering in local communities, and many years ago, we introduced a policy that required each staff member to dedicate 16 hours in the calendar year towards volunteering for which of course, they are, you know, drawn to. Initially, there was a lot of, you know, consternation and questions and all of that from the start, but they actually started participating in various projects, and these are wide ranging, from picking up trash on the beach, planting trees, to helping with painting and cleaning up old age homes. And you know, working with the underprivileged, the result was our staff came back and wanted to do more. And that kind of, you know, re-established my faith in humanity so to speak, because many of them went way beyond the required 16 hours, because once they realised they were making a difference, it had a deep impact on them. So they contributed way beyond that. And that's one of the things that I think clearly points towards one of the pillars of sustainability. Next we are a meat-free and plastic-free organisation. Animal agriculture is a significant cause of environmental pollution, it has led to deforestation, and, you know, in order to make way for pasture land, greenhouse gas emissions, land, water pollution, you know, the facts, the details are out there. We may be one small organisation in the larger scheme of things, but we firmly believe by refusing to pay for meat in any form another is making the stand and making a difference. Being plastic free is another thing, we have completely banned the use of single use plastic from all our offices. We are already committed to transitioning all our products, packaging, and merchandising, to biodegradable and environmentally friendly materials, by 2025. We are also moving towards replacing all our suppliers and vendors, who will basically will only those who follow responsible ethical supply chain practices, and have carbon offset programmes. So, all this is as also evolved into the families of these of our employees. That's what's amazing. Okay, these are corporate practices, but a lot of the families have decided to do the same in their own homes, you know, and inculcated this into their kids. And that makes a hell of a lot of difference in my mind, you know, a lot of them will come back to tell us, you know, we don't use plastic at home anymore. Our hotels and resorts in different parts of the world are built to be eco-friendly, they're designed with minimal impact to the environment, and they incorporate many natural elements as possible in their making and in their building. And we are right now in the process of building a university campus in Malaysia that will utilise wind and solar energy and will be a carbon free in our ambitions for the campus altogether. So, electric buses will take people around, there will be no motor vehicles allowed onto the campus. And, you know, the kids will basically learn to bike or walk all the way across. And I guess most importantly, our ecommerce business, which is our essential cash cow for direct selling company, has empowered entrepreneurs to in many of the developing countries allowing them to build their own businesses as micro entrepreneurs. Now, to me that sustainability in a different form, getting them to stand on their feet, and not rely on the government or any other form of handouts to survive. And this in a fashion has helped also in spreading our culture, thought processes and our philosophy across the continent.

Will Richardson 14:47
How have you implemented these three pillars?

Vijay Eswaran 14:52
When it comes down to running an ethical and sustainable business, I think the biggest challenge we have faced is that people and companies are both capable of building habits, and it is these habits that we need to break. I mean, we grew up at a time where, you know, single-use plastics and the like were common and parents and everyone else did it. It was not uncommon to throw trash out of your car window as you were travelling. So, sadly, none of these factors actually struck us as being detrimental in any fashion, it just happens. So, it's the habits that I think are the most important thing that needs to be broken, the global trash heaps and greenhouse gas emissions are all a direct product of this generation of habits, generation that had these habits. So I think the biggest challenge is, you know, changing these habits and change is the only serious effort that can bring all of this about. I think the millennials, and the centennials, and now the gen alphas, are probably the sign of positivity, because they are a lot more switched on, they are a lot more aware of all of these than we were in at their age, and most of this global attraction was there long before the millennials came about. And they are helping us, they are helping this world that we have unfortunately, in the sense, destroyed. And it's now something that we across generations have to join forces and work together. Change can only come about when we make a conscious effort to accept. And this is about action and repetition, two fundamental things. Essentially, if we don't make this effort, platform, either, at the most basic level, we will slip back into, old habits, comfort zones, places where people go to essentially drown themselves, and are what prevented us from breaking free. So egging people out of their comfort zone to something that's going to be a struggle, whether it's within our own organisation or elsewhere across the world. But when it comes to individual action that could be made to combat these issues, that's where the real challenge lies. So we need to start at the individual, each person has to take on his responsibility, his home, his environment, his immediate impact, his neighbours and the like. And if that can happen, then we have a chance.

Will Richardson 18:00
So what sustainability criteria do you consider when you decide to invest in a company?

Vijay Eswaran 18:08
Well, at the end of it, we are fortunately in a place where we don't do need to invest to survive, we invest in order to be able to essentially prove our profitability, which means that we are in a comfortable place whereby we can choose wisely. And we do quite a lot of research into the company itself, its sustainable practices, it's ethics when it comes to, you know, products and services. And it must fit in, it must jive, there must be something that allows us to build a partnership with these companies. So it's not just about investment per se, but also about us coming together in thought and in vision and strategy, so it must be in the middle of the mind. So when we invest, after all the technical data has been analysed and processed and the like, then there's a meeting of us together with the other stakeholders in the investment company to see whether or not there is an actual bridge that could be built between us.

Will Richardson 19:24
We've had a lot of discussion around greenwashing and businesses that make unfounded sustainable or ethical claims. I'd be interested to know what your warning signs are. So on the flip side, what red flags do you look out for when you consider investing in a company?

Vijay Eswaran 19:43
Well, let me tell you, we will be 23 years old, come September, you know and we have made a lot of bad decisions as well [laughs]. So I get one, you know, those who are up and coming of the potholes. So people, essentially, as you say, a lie. And that's probably the shortest way to describe it. In essence, it's a facade of trying to, you know, meet a new system of sustainable ethics and practices that they want to portray. So they want to be able to show that they are, you know, aboveboard, and sometimes we don't believe it, and much to our dismay, we have had to pull out. So, in particular, in third world countries, the concern is survival. You know, above everything else, I mean, it's fine to sit in Norway and Scandinavia, somewhere, you know, Western Europe, and sit around and talk about ethics, and values of environmental sustainability and all of that. But when you're sitting in a third world nation in Africa, for that matter, in some places like say, Nepal, Cambodia, then the priorities are essentially different. However, the one thing I found amazing, the generations that are up and coming, the millennials, so to speak, where we find them, all right, they have one singular mindset, they recognise the world, and somehow the world of the internet and social media has brought them up to par with what's happening out there, you know? And they are more tuned in, they are more switched on, they are asking the right questions. And in places like Bhutan, for example, they are totally in tune with nature and the environment, and asking the right questions. So I think it's about connecting with the right people, because in every country, we have been to there is the company that's switched on, there is a group of people who are like us. So finding us, you know, finding people like us, is the key. I think, as opposed to looking at data and looking at any other facts that's put in front of me, we need to go beyond all that.

Will Richardson 22:28
It will be interesting. I mean, this conversation has so much depth to it, because of the ramifications that you have just brought about. What I'm trying to get at is business leaders, politicians, if what you're saying, and I've heard this quite a few times across the board, you're not the only person to say exactly what you've said about millennials. So therefore, will it be that we start to have more confidence in younger leaders?

Vijay Eswaran 23:02
I could add to that by saying that, what's going to make a difference moving forward is fact that the older generation needs to wake up and recognise what the millennials and kind of the like, have already come to terms with. And if they do that, that bridge is very important. So in a micro causal, what we have done within the group is we made a policy that in every department, there must be a minimum of 30% millennials or younger. So we began to change that. So you know, with over 2000 people that's a difference that we can make within our ecosphere. Now, the other thing that we are looking at is that this 30% must be reflected all the way up the corporate ladder, which means in senior positions, and I want to be able to see millennials and I want to be able to see them at least in the middle of management, and if possible, all the way up to the top level of management. So the target of 30% is something that we have been pushing for amazing, younger and younger people who are probably arguably, you know, more mature than we were, you know, in their age and are now contributing. Now, they may not bring a whole lot of experience, obviously. But what they do bring is a different and a fresh insight. So, that insight has made a lot of difference to our decision making processes at every level. You know, we have all the people sitting down and listening and hearing stuff out. And, you know, there's there's of course a lot of haggling and disputes and this, that, and the other, but there's also a lot of meeting of the minds. I mean, let's take my own home for instance, my two girls, and they have two grandmas. Okay, the two grandmas, basically have been coached by the two girls, you know how to use social media [laughs]. So basically, right now they're just going to university, but during the teens, they are the ones who are basically driving the grandmas, and now both the grandmas are very good on Facebook and what have you, particularly Facebook, you know, posting and catching up and stuff. And that came because of this bridge that was built. And even today that goes and the grandmas actually have far better communication than we in between, so I put that into practice. Now in the corporate world, I'm seeing the younger kids, not kids anymore, but millennials. So those are heading out into the 30s, and all that becoming with different insights, you might call it a paradigm shift. Okay. And that's helped us in products, particularly in understanding mechanisms within the manufacturing range and working its way up to packaging, distribution and the whole likes, the whole thing, so to speak. And interesting.

Will Richardson 26:24
Yeah, I was on a call yesterday with an international media company. And there were a few people on the call, one of them was younger, and their industry has set a baseline as last year to be their baseline year for emissions. And the person on the call, who was older was saying but that's really hard because next year, we're going to start travelling again and therefore, what are we going to do? How are we going to reduce from 2020? And I was trying to explain to her that actually, you're not only going to have to reduce from 2020, you're actually probably going to have to almost get a quarter of the emissions from 2020. And that industry is quite flight heavy, so travel emissions are a big, big, big part of their emissions. And so your whole operations are going to have to change and I was gently nudging them towards how that could happen. Do you see that for your organisation, that operational shift? because of climate change and the carbon emissions?

Vijay Eswaran 27:38
It's already happening. Well, the pandemic has helped considerably, of course. But you know, there is people getting used to doing exactly this right now. Like zoom conferences, discussions and the like. So the physical meeting of us having to fly all over the place has become, you know, secondary. So I believe that if things were to swing back to some level of, you know, normalcy or whatsoever, there will still be a tremendous reduction in terms of the need, the modifying we used to do before would be cut down. And probably not just because it's difficult, or whether it's more expensive or whatever, but because we want it that way. And I think we got used to this right now. I mean, it's actually I've taken part in more conferences this year, than I've ever done before, simply because I could be speaking in Rome one day, and then I could be in Moscow or in Tokyo the next day, without having to you know, change for my sarong [laughs]. I just need to switch and put up a good shirt each time because fortunately, I don't have to stand up, so that's good. But I'm comfortable. I'm at home in my bedroom slippers and relaxed and participate in these conferences. This particular means that you won't be be sitting cross from some snooty individuals in their three piece suits, and you know, we are ultimately the real champions, I'm very happy doing this. I'm like, you know, very happy that I don't have to actually get there. So travelling, moving forward for business, I think in my mind, and I'm sure a lot of others, takes a second priority. We decide moving forward that it will be to some sunny destination where I can dip my feet into the sea or something.

Will Richardson 29:52
Since the inception of the QI Group in 1998, all your company events and meetings have been plant-based catering as you alluded to before. What was the reception to this been? And has it changed since 1998?

Vijay Eswaran 30:09
Yes, absolutely. There's change. I think when we first started out in 98, it's amazing but a lot of people were stunned, if not in a totally like, you know, it is something that hit them up from left field as they were not expecting it. It's kind of, why? What's this all about?You guys in some form or other are following some traditional culture, or something of that nature, and our point is, look guys, we just want to live in a world that is that is cruelty free, if we can survive without having to kill, that's a big, big step forward. So that's one. The second thing is I mean, environmentally, that means we're doing the plan is just, you know, unconscionable. It's not acceptable. We've got to make a stand somewhere, and the fact is, at that point, I think a lot of people were surprised. But, you know, the strange thing is, a lot more of them were surprised way out in the West than they were here in the East. It wasn't yet fashionable or trendy to do this. But, you know, subsequently in Silicon Valley, and a few other major companies out there like Officeworks, and the like, started following the same pattern, and then it became more acceptable. Today, it's something we are applauded for in that we have been doing this for as long as we have and we are proud of it, and our employees, you know, our product. So they come from totally different cultures sometimes, and they relate to it. So it's amazing. I mean, I got my invoice from Turkey, talking to people from the Ivory Coast, and farms, and they all related to, in the same conference call, they all relate into this concept of being vegetarian and plant-based and the likes of it.

Will Richardson 32:28
And you've got a university that has grown from 600 to 3000 people, or students, I should say, and you were talking about the fact that it's being powered by solar and wind energy earlier. What place does the University have within your QI group?

Vijay Eswaran 32:52
Well, let me be absolutely Frank, it wasn't part of our initial strategy at the time in terms of corporate strategy, because the university is actually a black hole within the group that look at it as a black hole of Calcutta [laughs]. It just sucks up more than we have anticipated, but for us, it's a legacy project, lets put it that way, it's a legacy project, if we are going to make a difference that is sustainable, that actually carries forward beyond our generation, it has to start there, it has to start at university. Because there we are able to basically, you know, influence young minds, and make them relate to and understand the value systems that we have evolved ourselves. And what's important is that a lot of very interesting debates have begun there that have come back towards the corporate side, you know, and influenced us. So, it's a two way street. It's not a profitable exercise, for sure. But in many ways, we are seeing returns that we never expected. And the kids, the kids that come out of there, I mean, we've been doing this now since a good 10 years, 11th year going right now. So, within 11 years, we've had many graduating students who are proud to consider themselves an alumni of Quest University, and Quest International University now that it's established itself. Now originally, we began with our medical school, because that's really where we wanted to make the greatest impact in medical practices and the pharmaceutical side where we felt again, that influence has to be actually inculcated, because, you know, we need to move away from allopathic medicine, we need to move away from traditional treating the symptom meant methodology, and move into natural healing, into traditional Chinese medicine and the likes, where we can actually bring this into young doctors training, where they are open to it. One of the most amazing things is like, in the West, meaning the US where I have spent seven years of my life, we have totally disparate in our schools of thought. And you could have them in the same building, you know, essentially, you've got your traditional various natural healing alternative, they call it alternative medicine, and then you have the allopathic schools. And essentially, they're basically throwing bombs at each other all the way. So I wanted our doctors to come up with an open mind and open attitude, with the understanding that the old ways actually have, you know, some resonance in today's world. And for a couple of them come up with understanding of acupuncture others come up with an understanding of Ayurvedic yoga and the likes. So that has been one of our original intentions, but now of course we have gone into some 30 odd disciplines and many of the degree programmes have been headed on. So it's a fully fledged University today.

Will Richardson 36:43
Okay, I mean that's brilliant. It's absolutely brilliant. Sadly, I could carry on talking to you for-. I've got so many more questions to ask you and I could carry on talking to you for hours, I think. I just want to finish with what steps would you advise to our listeners to take to enable a low carbon behaviour change in their own organisation?

Vijay Eswaran 37:07
You know, I think all change begins from within. And I think it's important that we first will see the need for it and want the want, the desire must come from within. And it's only when that happens, as opposed to us needing to conform to a particular legislation, or an outward impulse. That's when change really begins, when it is we wanting it to happen. And in the Gandhi's famous words, be the change you want to see in the world. And I think it just translates into, if you look within for the answers you seek, and for the solutions you need, then the path will emerge. So, you know, we can be instruments of change, we should not expect the world to change for us. We, on the other hand, tend to find fault with everything. That's why, you know, expertise lies, what we really need to do is find that fault within ourselves. Every problem of thought that we see in the outside world is simply a magnification of something within us. Now, we can actually start to correct that, then everything else would automatically fall into place.

Will Richardson 38:25
Great advice. Well, thank you so much for joining us today on the Sustainable Business podcast.

Vijay Eswaran 38:32
My pleasure.

Will Richardson 38:33
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