Season 5, Episode 164 : Unpacking Sustainability in the Fashion Industry: how fashion brands can react to the climate crisis

Will Richardson 00:03
Hi, welcome to the Sustainable Business Podcast with me Will Richardson. This week we're looking at the world of fashion. With London Fashion Week coming to an end at the weekend, we thought it would be right to look at an industry that has a particularly poor reputation when it comes to its carbon impact. When combining all parts of the product cycle, the UN estimates that the global fashion industry contributes between eight and 10% of all carbon emissions, and so called fast fashion continues to be greatly scrutinised by campaign groups for its impact on the environment. Joining me today is a prominent voice in the world of sustainable fashion. It's Alicia Thew from Green Element, who's done work with the industry group Fashion Declares, as well as working with a number of businesses in the fashion industry to help them decarbonise their supply chains, and production practices. Welcome, Alicia.

Alicia Thew 00:57
Hi. Well, thanks so much for having me - really excited to be chatting on the podcast today.

Will Richardson 01:03
Yeah, so am I considering we work so much together. And you definitely know your stuff on this subject. So I'm looking at trying to pull that out, so that people can understand what it is to do. And, you know, learn more about such a complicated industry as well.

Alicia Thew 01:22
Yeah, absolutely. And I think fashion, something that's quite close to my heart anyway, sort of CSI for my environmental career. So sort of marrying the two together is really exciting area for me.

Will Richardson 01:36
Brilliant. So first and foremost, how big an issue are the carbon emissions caused by the fashion industry.

Alicia Thew 01:42
Yeah, so as you mentioned in the introduction, that the fashion industry is responsible for about 10% of global greenhouse gas emissions, which is quite a big proportion. And those greenhouse gas emissions are mainly associated with the fossil fuels, which is used to generate the energy which goes into sort of all the different life stages of producing clothing or footwear, or accessories. So everything from extracting the raw materials, whether that sort of be growing cotton, through to the raw materials, processing, things like dyeing, manufacturing, so actually making the fabric itself and then making the garments, and then obviously all have the distribution as well, which which goes alongside that. And according to the United Nations, the app or our industry, as a whole actually uses more energy than both the aviation and shipping industries combined, which is quite staggering, really, given how carbon intense both of these industries are. I suppose also, it's also worth mentioning that greenhouse gas emissions, global warming isn't the only environmental impact caused by the fashion industry. And the industry actually uses huge volumes of water input into sort of growing the raw materials as well as the materials processing, as well as sort of harmful chemicals involved particularly in textiles dyeing, and all that sort of water use energy use, and then the waste as well, that comes out the other side, which both production is responsible for, but also as consumers, we're also responsible for that wastage. So yeah, it's obviously greenhouse gases, major issue, but there are lots of other other things going on as well.

Will Richardson 03:26
I think you kind of answered my question inadvertently, the next question... Well, because what I was going to ask you was if we switch to renewables, and then that whole, you know, emissions would reduce, but actually, what you're saying is, it's not just about the emissions, there's so much more to it, it's basically so multifaceted.

Alicia Thew 03:47
Yeah, absolutely. And sort of one of one of the main sort of recommendations, you know, for for the production process, as a whole would be switching over to 100% renewable energy. And that would have a massive impact. But it's it's not the only impact, as you say, you've got to sort of account for these other sort of sustainability issues of the industry as a whole.

Will Richardson 04:12
How much is it down to production methods? Or is it all because of the demand?

Alicia Thew 04:18
And it's really good question. And it's kind of both. So basically, the all the different stages as I sort of went through the raw materials production, the preparation, the processing of the of the materials, and then the garments are really energy intensive processes. And a report actually, by McKinsey estimated that that was accounted for about 70% of the total greenhouse gas emissions generated from the app or our industry. So, all those sort of production methods and processes that are going on. And when we look at the sort of whole lifecycle of clothing, including the consumer use and disposal, which also you know, we also need to account for and think about. Companies have already been through this carbon footprinting process. fashion brands, such as Levi Strauss and H&M as well have estimated that around 20% of their total carbon footprints actually down to the consumer use and the disposal of clothing. So that's actually that post production part of it, which is quite a big chunk. And overproduction, obviously, is a really big part of the problem, because if we made less, then global emissions from all stages of production, including that use and end of life would be reduced, because there would be fewer clothes in circulation in general, which is really sort of strong reason why we can't ignore the consumer aspect of the industries impact as well. The industry needs to make much more more effort to promote repairing, refurbishing secondhand clothing, and sort of making long lasting good quality clothing in the first case, which doesn't need to be replaced all the time, sort of bringing down the the pure number of garments in circulation as well as decarbonizing the processes.

Will Richardson 06:00
I was listening to a programme that had Primark's head a sustainability on the other day, it was Deborah Meaden's podcast. And she was talking about how, how environmental they are becoming, but I think you've just hit the nail on the head, it doesn't matter about the practices, it's about how much you're making. If the most of the emissions come from actually fast fashion, then fast fashion shouldn't exist.

Alicia Thew 06:31
Yeah, absolutely. It's a whole sort of societal change as well is a sort of a way of thinking. And that sort of needs to come from the top down in terms of how we sort of normalise, you know, clothing, you know, buying secondhand clothes and, and repairing our own clothes or sending it to be refurbished. So I think once we tackle that sort of mindset, and just reducing consumption will be a long way towards reducing, you know, sort of global emissions from the industry.

Will Richardson 07:03
Yeah, I guess you can make the most quality clothes. And if you're making too much of it, that's the crux of it. So what what are some of the steps fashion businesses can take when it comes to their own operations?

Alicia Thew 07:17
So within a company's own operations is usually where they have the most autonomy and control over what can actually be measured and changed. And I suppose sort of a starting point, which feeds actually into the production process will be the design of clothing, and shoes and accessories and sort of, you know, all of those sorts of things, and making sure that the fabrics that are chosen, have longevity, are sustainably produced. And the the clothing is made with a mind that it could be repaired one day, and then be reused after that. So I think design is really important. Aside from that, in terms of a company's own sites, and there's operational sites, whether that be retail outlets, shops, offices, warehouses, attention can obviously be paid to the energy efficiency of those buildings, as well as you know, ensuring the 100% renewable is used cutting out the use of fossil fuels, those sorts of things. And also, as well, sort of a nod again, to the water use efficiency and and ensuring that waste is disposed of appropriately as well, is really important. I say aside from buildings, if a company has its own fleet of vehicles, they can consider whether they can switch to electric vehicles instead, which could be charged them with about 100%, renewable electricity tariffs. And sort of, you know, in addition to that, there are some really great courses by the smart freight centre and Energy Savings Trust as well on sort of fleet efficiency. So you know, anything to do sort of logistics and operations, which are within a company's own control. And there are lots of improvements that can be made there. And I suppose finally, as well, just to mention some of the decisions made with regards to the material and packaging choices that are actually used sort of, can we use less, considering all the materials that are being used, considering whether they can be reused is really important and something that brands you actually have influence over?

Will Richardson 09:19
It's really interesting to hear about the operational side. But should companies focus solely on their own practices or is it also important, you know, to look at the Suppliers and distributors within the ecosystem?

Alicia Thew 09:34
Yeah, so I think it's absolutely essential that companies also look at their Suppliers and distributors, because that forms are huge part of their scope three emissions. So we mentioned at the start that around 70% of the greenhouse gas emissions from the industry as a whole actually related to the first stages of production, which are often performed by their party suppliers, distributors, etc. So, just to remind ourselves that's producing the raw materials and processing the raw materials and making the garments. And that means essentially that focusing efforts there can have the greatest collective impact. Having said that, that's also an area of the supply chain that companies tend to really struggle with, because they have the least influence over their suppliers and civic can can prove a bit, you know, can prove a bit tricky. And that's why, in general, sort of, we suggest a really collaborative approach to tackling escape three supply chain emissions sort of a opening in the conversation with suppliers and seeing how they respond and sort of implementing electric vehicles into their fleets or changing the materials they use or switching to renewable energy. And are there sort of any incentives that that you can provide? Can you invest money in new technologies, which will work with suppliers to sort of make make their processes more efficient? And I think it's actually really interesting that the science based targets initiative, actually, for the scope three targets, one of the sort of optional pathways is sort of a collaborative approach of bringing your suppliers along with you, they will target to get them to sign up to science based targets. And I think that's, that's really interesting, and just sort of highlights that the collaboration that that's needed sort of within the industry as a whole,

Will Richardson 11:32
it's such an important part of the reduction strategy, isn't it for for that collaboration for the suppliers to all work together and have that lead? We hear a lot about offsetting within the supply chain, and what are your thoughts on that?

Alicia Thew 11:48
Decarbonisation of the supply chain is the only real way to tackle the carbon footprint of the industry. And so that's sort of the path that we take all of our clients down. And I mentioned the science based targets initiative, and so just to sort of talk a little bit about that sort of to set the scene. The science based targets initiative is sort of a collaboration with some of the really big hitters. So the UN Global Compact, the World Resources Institute, WWF, who have sort of designed this framework for companies to set targets, which put you on track your carbon emissions reductions on track, to meet and align with 1.5 degrees cap on global warming. And eventually, to meet what we sort of call ScienceBased Net Zero by 2050, at the latest. So science based targets are really robust, they're very meaningful. And as I sort of mentioned, in line with the climate science, and there are lots of benefits to setting them as well, including sort of improved resilience, sort of preparation for regulations that might come into place, improve credibility, really positive for company reputation, and can be quite cost effective as well. And depending on sort of the strategies and efficiencies that are put in place as part of your carbon reduction strategy, and a real way, sort of future proofing your business. So setting, science based targets basically involves setting a short term target over five to 10 years, and then a long term net zero target, which must be you know, your net zero target date must be 2050 by the latest. And basically, what that means for your net zero target is that companies need to reduce their emissions by at least 90%. By then it's the target date, and then only those residual emissions, which surround 10% At the end, can then be removed via permanent carbon removals. And they can be nature based or technology based, such as direct Capture and Storage.

Will Richardson 13:52
So in a nutshell, you wouldn't offset because it's not scientifically proven.

Alicia Thew 13:57
Yeah, exactly. So carbon offsetting is used by some companies, sort of, as, you know, as an alternative, a quick, quicker fix than this. And I suppose yeah, just sort of giving that background, just trying to explain that. It's sort of not a quick fix. And these sort of reductions, sort of sizes, reductions targets, which have been modelled on the actual science. So we know that, you know, we have confidence in them as sort of the best way to go, because there are so many issues associated with carbon offsetting. And that's sort of the reason why they're not accepted towards, you know, your science based targets.

Will Richardson 14:38
That makes sense. Um, can you think of any examples of companies that have made progress in the decarbonising?

Alicia Thew 14:46
Yeah, absolutely. So I sort of having a litrtle browse on site based targets initiative the other the other day and they had recent impact reports out and I was just sort of having a little look around. So there are currently around 72 companies is in the fashion footwear and textile industries who have set their near term science based targets, committing to limiting global warming by 1.5 degrees. And they include companies such as Adidas, Allbirds, Burberry, Levi's, that I mentioned earlier as well. And as of those 72 companies, there are 23, who have also set or committed rather to a net zero target, but not not set that target yet. So that sort of framework is relatively new, relatively new. And as I just described, sort of setting your science based targets is committing to reducing greenhouse gas emissions. And it's a great sign that fashion brands are engaging. So Allbirds, for example, are looking really carefully at their materials and recycled content of their packaging, some of their forefront carbon reduction strategy, whilst Levi's, on the other hand, are looking at sourcing renewable energy, all of that owned and operated sites, and also investing in their supply chain to drive decarbonisation, sort of amongst their suppliers. And so it's really interesting, sort of seeing what different companies have identified, as, you know, the main things that that they want to prioritise at the moment.

Will Richardson 16:15
And the companies that you work with, what sort of things are they doing?

Alicia Thew 16:21
Yeah, so there's all sorts going on. So renewable energy, so switching to renewable energy, similarly, Levi's owned and operated sites is a big one. And it's a bit more of a challenge with supplier owned sites and some factories and things like that. But there could be some influence over it. So she starts with some of the bigger brands that we've worked for who do you have that bit more influence, purely volume of the garments that they're producing as well. And sort of some of our other companies like Finistere, looking at the materials, they've got some really exciting new materials like their wetsuits, that they sort of substituted out to have sort of a low environmental impact. And also, sort of, we're seeing lots of lots of companies launching, refurbishment and repair services Finistere have their own sort of repairs workshop online. So yeah, all sorts of different things that in terms of packaging, as well. You know, we're seeing a reduction in the amount of packaging being used in general, which has a knock on effect for frating as well. So the less weight we're sending or less packaging, resending the lower the carbon emissions from facing as well. So lots lots of exciting things.

Will Richardson 17:49
And you conduct lifecycle analysis on clothing companies don't you- Could you explain what a lifecycle analysis is, please?

Alicia Thew 18:00
Yeah, sure. So a lifecycle analysis looks at the ...the environmental impacts, I mean, for us, specifically, the greenhouse gas emissions associated with every stage of a product's production. And so we tend to do cradle to grave lifecycle analysis, which is basically looking at all of the inputs from the raw materials, extraction, production and extraction, processing, manufacturing, the product itself, whether it's a garment, whether it's something else, and then distributing warehousing, all the transportation in between all those different legs, all the way through to the customer. And then if whatever the product is, might be it might require energy to use it, then that would be included as well, all the way through to the end of life. So they've got the carbon emissions associated with whatever waste disposal method that that product undergoes. So it's a really comprehensive and detailed look at every stage of our products production.

Will Richardson 19:12
So when you first started doing this, the lifecycle analysis, was there anything that that you saw, in, you know, the work that you're doing that you were kind of Oh, wow, you know, that that jumped out at you? And when I wasn't expecting that, or, or was it all, I kind of was expecting most of this?

Alicia Thew 19:32
Yes and no, I would say the impact of the raw materials themselves, often surprises me how big a part of the product footprint they have. And that's just the raw materials themselves. And that sort of you think about, you know, all of the energy that goes into production and transporting products around sort of global networks. You think that's going to be huge, and then you actually look at, look at the results, and often, it's actually the raw materials themselves, which have the biggest impact. And I say is, somewhat ironically, that tends to be where we tend to have the least detailed data just because, you know, the way that the world works is big sort of global supply chains, and very far removed from sort of somebody actually growing the cotton in the ground. And sort of getting that sort of level of detail is so important, and something that, that I hope, sort of the work that we do in other companies, will enable that sort of transparency or all the way through the supply chain.

Will Richardson 20:44
With regards to raw materials. I've had quite a few people on our podcast, talking about natural products, and then synthetic products. Does that make a difference on that lifecycle? So I guess we could talk about wool? Or basically plastic, isn't it? That's, that's used instead of wool? Polyester. Is there a difference?

Alicia Thew 21:08
Yeah, absolutely. So it's really complex. And there's sort of different schools of thoughts and sort of their natural versus synthetic textiles for clothing. So, obviously, polyester is made from fossil fuels. Obviously, big, big negative, and it's very energy intensive process, recycled polyester is available, but there are again going to be greenhouse gas emissions associated with the recycling of that polyester. And because there are often plastics are produced sort of in products, which have lots of different complex mixtures of different plastics, there are some challenges associated with with the recycling of plastics and polyester so that it can then be used in textiles and for garments. I suppose with with wool, the farming practices, so the production of the sheep has the biggest impact on sort of the lifecycle of of a woollen garment. That's mainly aimed to the methane produced by by the sheep as ruminant animals, as well as sort of lots of lots of other inputs as well in terms of, you know, the energy associated with with farming, their land use, and their consequences on soil health and soil fertility, etc, etc. So, there are sort of lots of environmental impacts associated with both. So it's, it's kind of not as simple as to say one's better than the other. And I think it really has to be taken on a case by case basis and getting right down into the weeds of the data. So, you know, literally going out to the farm level and saying what practices are used, what energy is used, how much is used, and assessing those impacts of sea, there are farming methods that says regenerative farming techniques, which are considered as much more environmentally friendly than conventional farming techniques. And similarly, sort of in that example of polyester as well, there are 100% recycled polyester can be used from 100% renewable energy, but then you've still got the microplastics and sort of toxins associated with polyester, whether it's recycled or not. So it's, it's really not that simple.

Will Richardson 23:27
And this is a rhetorical question, how do we disseminate that information? And how do we, you know, educate consumers on the subject, really, and it's making it as simple as possible? Because it's complicated from listening to you?

Alicia Thew 23:43
Yeah, it's really complicated.

Will Richardson 23:45
Moving into, you know, consumers are people looking for sustainable or upcycled clothing?

Alicia Thew 23:51
Yes, absolutely. So, a couple of weeks ago, I was actually at the launch party for a new company selling secondhand High Street and designer clothes, and they're called the Circle. And there was such a buzz about the place, people seem genuinely excited, you know, to be looking at all these lovely secondhand pre loved clothes, and also getting a bit of a bargain as well. Which which we mustn't forget, is obviously a benefit and, and that's that's sort of just just one example, there are lots of online retailers selling pre loved secondhand clothing, shoes and accessories that were actually doing really well. And it's good to see it becoming more mainstream. Again, so that that we use of clothing I say as well we're also seeing lots of companies launching those sort of refurbishment and repair schemes on their website. So Finistere as I mentioned before, we've worked with have launched a repairs workshop and Patagonia sort of have a long standing worn wear hub as well. Sending clothes that they'll refurbish and resell or do...They sort of do repairs as well on sort of your clothing that you want back. So, lots of exciting things going on - another option is garment rentals as well. So there are some specialist companies doing just rentals and even some sort of high street fashion retailers have trialled it. I think H&M child it, maybe it maybe in the past few years, but hasn't quite become mainstream yet. But there's no reason why not. And I think it's that sort of, as I was talking about earlier, that societal mindset shift, to make it sort of trendy and cool and normal.

Will Richardson 25:40
I'm moving into Fashion Declares - its London Fashion Week, you've been doing some work for Fashion Declares, can you tell us a bit more about that organisation and what they do?

Alicia Thew 25:51
I worked with Fashion Decalres and Safia Minney, one of the founders of that organisation. And she asked me to speak about decarbonising the supply chain and the fashion industry in a recent webinar, which was really good event and brought together some really interesting speakers from sort of various perspectives in the industry. So Fashion Declares sort of as an organisation is sort of global movement of people within the fashion industry, who all want to learn, learn more share best practices and take effective action on climate and ecological and social problems. And so sort of the, the concepts, they have five main goals - Fashion Declares have five main goals which sort of range from social justice to decarbonisation, and pushing for a sort of regenerative fashion model, to sort of changing the fashion industry to act as a force for good and sort of promote responsible and sort of sustainable ways of working. And companies can commit these goals by signing an open letter on their website. So it's sort of, you know, bringing companies in the fashion industry together as a collective force for for all of the good things that that we've been talking about, say,

Will Richardson 25:52
Brilliant. I mean, that sounds really positive. Are you optimistic about the industry? Is it moving in the right direction?

Alicia Thew 26:56
And I say it again, I suppose Yes. And no. I think companies and the public are starting to sort of set up and listen, and there's even sort of these things on Instagram, you're starting to get more and more bloggers, fashion bloggers, things like that. And Instagram stars, starting to talk about, you know, the sustainability of fashion. Lots of brands are jumping on board, I think that awareness in the public is, is really starting to gain a bit of traction. And it made me really, really excited to go to the Circle launch party the other week and see people so engaged with secondhand clothing, I think that's so important. That we use recycled repair clothing because we normalised in society and even sort of desirable. And I think so at the company level, there are some really forward thinking companies, especially those we've worked with, like Finistere, who are making some serious commitments to reducing their environmental impact. But on the flip side of that, there are still a lot of sort of bigger players, who are sort of still paying lip service to sustainability. And it would be really good to see them all signed up to science based targets or setting their net zero targets and even even perhaps being held accountable to some of these targets at some point.

Will Richardson 28:43
You know, on the questions that we ask anyone that wants to come and work at Green Element, it's "what's one of the campaigns you're most unimpressed with?". It always surprises me how many people talk about the H&M campaigns? And yes, it's it really does say such a big, you know, story because generally I would say that most people who want to come and work for us in most of the roles are younger, between 20 and 35. And I would imagine that H&M's target market is between 20 and 35. So their target market are switching off - their target market are going "you're greenwashing" and that's got to say something to them. I did think about anonymising all the data and then sending them all the answers and going 'look, your target market think it's rubbish. Do something about it'.

Alicia Thew 29:37
Yeah, no, absolutely. That yeah, the attraction is going there's so much there's so much more awareness, as you say, especially in in that sort of age group. Which is great. And I think, you know, we need we need people sort of start demanding that change, which I think they are actually. I think they are

Will Richardson 29:55
Yeah, brilliant. Well, thank you, Alicia, for joining us on this book. us today.

Alicia Thew 30:00
Thanks for having me.

Will Richardson 30:02
And if you'd like to learn more about decarbonising the fashion industry, you can find a link to the Fashion Declares website in the show notes. There's a link to our website there as well. And if you want to feedback or if you have any questions, feel free to DM us at Green Element through LinkedIn, Twitter, or Facebook. Thanks for listening. I'm Will Richardson from Green Element. Don't forget to rate and subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss an episode. And we'll be back next month. Until then take care.