Season 5, Episode 160 : Sustainable Marketing – Engine’s Journey to Net-Zero

Will Richardson 00:06
Welcome to the Sustainable Business Podcast, where we feature business leaders and innovators transforming their operations to be more environmentally and socially sustainable. I'm your host, Will Richardson and today I'm joined by Rachel Boland, Head of Sustainability of Engine UK. Engine has been a client of Green Element since 2008. They began their sustainability journey much earlier than most businesses. Hi, Rachel, thanks for joining me.

Rachel Boland 00:35
Hi, Will, lovely to be here. Thank you very much for inviting me to the podcast.

Will Richardson 00:40
I'm excited. To start off with, can you tell us a bit about Engine and what you do, please.

Rachel Boland 00:47
So I am head of sustainability for Engine UK. And in my role, I am responsible for moving our overarching strategy, which spans our in-house operational carbon emission reduction work. Which also looks at our client work processes and what we're doing in that area. And also, in the context of our influence, both with our clients and with the industry.

Will Richardson 01:17
Brilliant. In terms of your journey at Engine, you started as Operations Manager. So how did you get to be Head of Sustainability? And why was that important to you?

Rachel Boland 01:30
So I was Operations Manager for a number of years. And in that capacity, I was responsible for the, if you like the experience, the employee and the client experience with Engine within the building working at Engine. And as part of that role, I was also responsible and involved in a number of projects and initiatives that were rolled out over the years in, you know, in an effort to obviously improve the business and how we behaved and to make it as positive an experience as possible for people coming into the building. And I looked after a number of key supplier relationships, one and partners, one of which was with yourself green element from an early stage. And we had an opportunity to develop that over the years through the work we started to do on our environmental management system from an early stage. So my involvement with Green Element, with that work in that space, gained momentum as the years went on. And as the needs of the business in this space grew over time, not only from the clients who were looking for us to, you know, to improve what we were doing in this space but also internally, there was an internal desire to move things forward.

Will Richardson 02:51
Okay, and so Engine has prioritised sustainability. And we can see that through your environmental management system. Can you explain what that is, and what motivated you to implement environmental best practice?

Rachel Boland 03:06
So from an early stage, as far back as 2008 2009, we started to look more closely at our carbon footprint. And a lot of this was driven by tenders and RFIs that were coming in from clients looking to understand the contributions we were making what we were doing internally, how we were playing our part in helping to measure our carbon footprint and play our part in the environmental space. But what happened around that time, and there was a marketing, a new business manager, Alenka Laurenson, I'm sure you remember her, she was instrumental in putting in place our internal initiative, which was called our little bit. And that initiative was lovely, it helped put a kind of a narrative around what we were doing. So not only were we focusing on the community and the people, but we were also focusing on the environment. So they were our three pillars, and they really kind of helped us move forward and start to build momentum. So you know, the clients looking for us to share what we were doing internally, as a business, which, you know, obviously increasing the over the years has aligned more and more with how they're behaving as a business. And so too to the kind of internal desire within Engine to be better, to better ourselves, and to do what we could. And all of this really helped inform the strategies that we ended up putting in place over the years, which have gathered some really positive momentum.

Will Richardson 04:47
You've always you guys have always been really, really good at minimising your environmental impact. I remember quite early on having a meeting with your architects that had kind of designed the space for you guys. And I was really confused because CIBSE, the Chartered Institute for Building Survey Engineers have this thing that they think that so much energy per metre squared. And you were really bad in inverted commas. And I couldn't work it out. And what we realised was, you weren't really bad. In actual fact, you were incredibly efficient with your space. So you had loads of people in a smaller space than most people would have, then thought you had more energy per metre squared. So actually normalising your data through FTE, you know, full-time equivalent was a much more pertinent strategy. And it just, it just showed very early on how good you know, you guys were from an environmental perspective.

Rachel Boland 05:56
Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, together with the strategies and the measures we put in place, whether that was key messaging that we put up around the business to help with the behavioural kind of nudging of individuals in the business or visitors coming into the building, of course, zip taps, which we put in place, removing under desk bins, and the single-use plastic investing in our energy management system to ensure that it was running more efficiently, all of these phases that we went through, all of these strategies, and all of these measures that we put in place really helped to, to kind of increasingly build that story and build that momentum. So we always wanted to kind of build on that and move on to the next stage and challenge ourselves even more. So when I had the opportunity to move into the role, and, you know, I could see clearly through the responses we were sending through to clients, and also the CSR assessments, which were coming through so EcoVadis, CDP, they're all brilliant. But they all you know, they put you through your paces. So you know, they really do push you to a point where you can kind of go, yay, I've done this. But then the next question, you'll be like, rubbish, you know, I should have done that or should be doing better. But that's not a bad thing. Because this is a continual journey. This is, you know, there's no endpoint, as far as I'm concerned, it is a journey you go on, and you are continually improving, you're continually checking yourself, you're continually measuring. And measuring it is really, really key to all of this. So I would say thank you to the clients, thank you to the CSR assessments, thank you to the enthusiasm that, you know, we've managed to get from people internally to help move this forward. Because putting the strategy in place by widening our net, to not just look at our in house to properly look at how as a business, how we do business, the work we're producing the influence, the position of influence, is is just really, really important to leverage on those on those three areas for Engine,

Will Richardson 08:21
Such a wonderful way to look at the long and arduous surveys that you've got to put through with CDP and EcoVadis, etc. That's a lesson learned for all of us to put the positive slant to them.

Rachel Boland 08:33
Definitely, definitely,

Will Richardson 08:35
Engine has committed to achieving net zero by 2050. Now, essentially that means that all greenhouse gas emissions generated by Engine across its operations will need to be matched by the removal of the same number of emissions by 2050. What has Engine actually put in place to meet that commitment?

Rachel Boland 08:56
So as part of our climate action plan, we have an important climate action item, which is aligning ourselves with a Science-based target initiative. And that again will mean we're in our stretch zone because we need to properly dive in further to our scope three emissions, which are going to be really key in helping us to make those proper, big leaps forward in this space. So again, that informs the measures we're putting in place we have been running an assessment over the last few months on you know, on trying to understand more what people need in terms of learning and skills internally to properly embed sustainability into their work. We have developed a supplier and ethical procurement policy which will be rolling out hopefully in the coming months and ensuring that all our suppliers not just our, you know, our big in house suppliers but all our suppliers right across the board are aligned With our values with, with what is ingrained in our code of conduct in our supplier code of conduct, and then how we behave as a business. And that's all really important. And obviously, the sustainable production work, which we have also been on a journey with for over a year now is, is a big part of that. And really kind of helping to take clients on that journey, it's the influence piece comes into play so much, because you need them to engage, you need them to be on board, you need them to see the value in not only creating great work and helping their business to grow, but it's, it's, for me, it's about positive outcomes. That's where we need to get to it is about growth. But more importantly, it is about positive outcomes. And that needs to be the change in mindset over the coming years.

Will Richardson 11:00
Yeah, but I think what's great is because you've embraced sustainability for such a long time and truly manage it well, that thinking is quite natural to you guys. And it's great that you're doing all these things. But it's important to tell everyone you are. Now, how are you communicating engines Net Zero commitment to your, you know, workforce, customers and clients, etc?

Rachel Boland 11:29
Yeah, so we are continuing to do it through our RFIs, of which they're coming through and, you know, to in a much more granular way, it's not just, it is no longer a tick box exercise, they are looking for evidence, they are looking for a roadmap, they are looking, you know, for you to explain in detail what you are doing the strategies in place, what lies ahead, and how you will add value to their sustainability, strategy, and ambitions as well. We are also we've published September, our carbon reduction plan on the back of our relationship with the Government. So that is significant. And within the carbon reduction plan, we have aligned ourselves with a Science-based target initiative of which we look forward to going through the official verification process in the coming months. And also, we communicate through intermediaries. So we do a lot of presentation work. So we've had to present our credentials around what we're doing around sustainability. So whether that is directly with clients and a pitch process, or it's, you know, with consultants who are acting as intermediaries with clients, we need to show that we are engaged - not least with initiatives such as Adnet Zero, which you're all too familiar with, of course, and which has really inspired much of the work and the direction, which we've taken over the last year, especially

Will Richardson 13:06
Something that businesses have to start addressing now, is the carbon emissions being generated from staff working from home, especially during these COVID years. Now, does Engine have plans to address this?

Rachel Boland 13:19
Yes, as part of our scope three emission work, we will be diving deeper into our working from home emissions. And because of the change in how we work. So pre COVID, we had a fluid working model policy in place. But obviously, with COVID, that massively accelerated, we went to work from home. And then we have now retained the hybrid style of working, which obviously makes us very efficient as a business. So you know, we were achieving we were working at 100% efficiency, and achieving all of the results when we were purely working from home. But now in our hybrid style of working, we're working in still a far more efficient way and able to, you know, take advantage and leverage all of the fantastic collaboration virtual collaboration tools, which we have in place. It obviously minimises the need to travel, to use paper to use energy. All of the things the knock-on effect, with being more efficient with your day and your movements during the course of the week really feeds into that.

Will Richardson 14:28
Engine is also an official supporter of AdNet Zero. Yes, the advertising associations initiative to encourage an industry-wide reduction of carbon emissions. And actually, Green Element helped the association to develop a climate strategy for this project. And they were keen to encourage the industry to go beyond just target setting. Could you run us through your experience of AdNet Zero and how it helps engine

Rachel Boland 14:56
definitely AdNet Zero at something I started to engage with towards the end of 2019. And after a deeper understanding of their plan, and their action plan, their five point Action Plan, which is, as you know, incredibly comprehensive, and so accessible, I mean, anyone in the industry just the way the report was put together, and you know, high five to Green Element in there as well, because I know you were key in bringing that information and sharing that information with the industry. It is, it is just only inspirational and only makes you want to get on board, which was exactly what happened. So a significant part of the engine business is focused around the advertising world. And as part of that, there was no question in my mind that we have to 100% lean into AdNet Zero, it is an industry-wide initiative, it made sense to be a part of it, to help with the collaboration to support where we could to add value where we could, whether that was through the networking, collaboration, or the data side of things, but also, you know, to, to give our opinion, to support them in the steering group, which I set on working Action Group one focused on reducing advertising, emissions associated with the operational side of things, all of this has been really beneficial. And I've net-zero, as a collaborative initiative is going to be key in helping the industry move to the next stage, you can have leaders, but you 100% need followers. And without the followers, you just don't have a movement as far as I'm concerned. So it's, it's got to be everyone working together in a collective mindset, sharing, learning, and humbling experience kind of way, because, you know, we all need to stay....for me, we all need to bring each other on this journey, at the same pace at the same time. Because if, if one of us fires ahead, and then everyone else is left behind, then it's meaningless. What we're trying to do is we'll only work if, if there is everybody at the same level with the same momentum.

Will Richardson 17:20
I think that's what they've done really well, isn't it so that having those different working groups and having different people sets on working groups from different organisations, I myself sit on one of them. And I think, you know, in hindsight, looking back at what they've done, it's genius. And actually, it should be replicated in other industries, because they've almost embraced everyone, and brought them all in on that journey. I mean, it certainly helps. You've got people like Joe Coombs, there that's so passionate about sustainability and has been for so many years, decades. And so bright and so articulate and so good at seeing where the future of it is. And then you've got people like Stephen Woodford that's really pleased to see that vision and totally gets it. You know, as a senior leader, you can't get more on it, then him so I think, I don't know, I love it. I love it. I think so many industries can learn from it.

Rachel Boland 18:25
Oh, no, I 100% agree. And I think one of the loveliest things I would consider myself that myself still, in comparison to all those people you've mentioned, and more Will, relatively new in this space, you know, in all earnest, and experts. Well, you know, what, what is so lovely about the AdNet Zero initiative, and I do hope it is the same for other industry initiatives is that it is so everybody feels like they're on the same level, there is no hierarchical feeling. And everyone's opinion counts, everyone has a right to lean in and share and express how they feel and input. And I think it is, it is a very lovely level playing field, very collective, very positive initiative, which I would 100% encourage everyone in the industry to engage with.

Will Richardson 19:18
Yeah, it comes from the top though, all this kind of stuff does come from the top doesn't it, that culture

Rachel Boland 19:23
It does. And you know, I think, Gosh, I think if I knew then, and I kind of go back a few years in Engine what I know now, I would have helped to accelerate this journey earlier, and I think if there's something you know, one of the few things I could say I'd share on this on this podcast is that start the journey as early as possible as you can, and absolutely to your point Will, engage the top but engage the people. But engaging the top just helps to move it forward. I'd like to think that it's a no-brainer. In this day and age, I don't think that's unfortunately probably the case in every business. But I think it has to be, we are going to wake up with a horribly rude awakening. I mean, there have already been so many. It's kind of extraordinary in light of that, that not everyone is kind of moving forward at the same pace. But I, I think we're moving forward. We're definitely pushing forward. There are lots of voices, there are lots of business leaders, there are lots of people across every industry really passionate about this, but we need more, more key influencers moving into place and leading the charge. And those key influencers will really they'll get the followers.

Will Richardson 20:57
Absolutely. And that top-down is, is imperative, as you said, as you said, Yes. Now, we've kind of touched upon this a bit. But do you get an opportunity to learn from others and share your own experiences?

Rachel Boland 21:10
Within the industry?

Will Richardson 21:12
Yeah, and because you hurt you, yourself have learned so much. And you've touched upon the fact that you're learning from others within the AdNet Zero kind of ecosystem, but maybe outside that indifferent. So talking to different industries, clients, or...

Rachel Boland 21:29
Yes, so I have spoken to other consultants who are focused on different areas. So there is Wonder Room whose lead is led by Marie Kahal. And she is hugely focused on nature and biodiversity. That is her, she is a sustainability business leader through and through, but that is her specific area of passion and focus at the moment. So I am hoping to engage with her in the coming months years because the work that she's doing is fantastic. But also looking at our competitors and talking to our competitors and understanding the journey they've been on. And you know, the barriers to kind of getting to the next stage, I think that's really important to understand and share them. So you can kind of, you know, work to kind of help move forward faster by kind of being able to anticipate better, the barriers or the, you know, the obstacles that might lie ahead. But also, I'm very involved in the Cambridge Institute for Sustainability Leadership now, because I am doing further studies with them. And through that, I'm now communicating with people right across the world in such a number of industries, who have an incredible wealth of knowledge and different perspectives and different experiences and different thought processes. So all of that is going to massively help enrich and deepen my understanding. And the work that I do will be even better informed from understanding it from a global context as well, which is really important. In all of this.

Will Richardson 23:13
That course is brilliant. I know a few people who lead on it, who teach on it, but actually, Jem Forcus, who is CEO of Firefish, other clients of ours, he's on it at the moment. So you may come across him.

Rachel Boland 23:27
There are a lot of us that they've I mean, it's excellent. It's so well put together. I mean, I can't believe I attend virtual campus during the week, but it happens and you've got your working groups and your sharing sessions and plenty of reading. So he may be in my working group or not, I'll look out for him.

Will Richardson 23:54
Very good fun. Again, actually, funnily enough, one of my first ever customers, I started working for him actually just before Engine in 2006. And, but brilliant. They're the best, aren't they? Yeah, cuz you look after each other in the long term ones. With everything, you've learned, what have been the biggest challenges in engines' environmental journey?

Rachel Boland 24:21
Oooh. So I would say change in leadership has been a tricky one. And, you know, that is why I think it is so important to embed it at an early stage so that it becomes what the business is about, rather than Oh, this is something else we do. So, look, every business goes through, you know, goes through change. It goes through phases, and that happens, particularly the bigger businesses. But I would say that has probably been you know a little A bit of a challenge, if I can be honest because you are obviously doing a lot of work with and collaborating with a leadership team. And then if there's a change, a significant change, that can affect the pace at which things are going, particularly if you're still relatively early on, in the journey of trying to really build it into the business strategy because that's what you need to do. It needs to be like we've already said, and I know, it is repeated, but it is so important that it is from the top down, it has to be part of the business strategy. And if it's not, then you're more vulnerable, because when there are those changes, things get thrown around a little. So I think for consistency for continuity, and you also want to become a business that, that, that people recognise as being they do this, but they're really they're quite a purpose led, you know, they want this as a business that clearly strives for positive outcomes you want, you want your business these days to be synonymous with a sustainable world with a business that is properly leaning in. And that should stick that should not change, you know, irrespective of who is leading at the time, or employees coming and going. I mean, of course, that is the other, you know, when you have churned in a business, that's tricky, because I have a Climate Action Group. And, you know, by September, October, there were 20 of us. But because they're, you know, they, they lean into it from different parts of the business and obviously, when there's churn, and if people leave, then that changes, the kind of the flow of things within the group and how things are moving forward. Now, my presence doesn't change. So I can keep things moving forward. But it obviously makes a difference when some key influencers within the business are no longer there. So I think, I think just all the more reason to build it into your DNA. That's where it has to sit.

Will Richardson 27:15
Absolutely. I actually blame myself a bit for the senior leadership not being involved from day one, because I was quite new and young and immature to what it was that I was doing. And you know, I've spoken about this before, and because now I'm much more forceful because I know what I'm I, I trust what I'm talking about. And I think back then, I was possibly led more by clients, and clients naturally, don't bring leadership in. Whereas if you look at the 14001 standards, and you look at all the literature around it, even back then it was always, senior leadership needs to be a part of the initial steps. And I think I think you're spot on with that being advice and learnings because it can't, it doesn't have the longevity if you don't have senior leadership buy-in.

Rachel Boland 28:09
But I think you've been way too hard on yourself, by the way.

Will Richardson 28:13
You've said that before, but I still, think you could always learn though. And that's how you get better, isn't it? Oh, would you have any advice for businesses looking to do the same?

Rachel Boland 28:23
Start measuring, start measuring. Start now.

Will Richardson 28:29
Amazing advice.

Rachel Boland 28:31
Don't be afraid to push. Don't be afraid to be proactive. Don't be afraid to have uncomfortable conversations with people you perhaps think may not necessarily be completely in the space or want to totally hear everything you have to say. I think there's one thing about this journey, once people start on it, it's incredibly difficult for them to say, actually sorry, no, I'm not interested anymore. It's not one of those products which you go all for services which you go off it is something that is going to determine whether or not our you know, our children or the next generations are going to have in any way, a decent life in years to come in any way. So there is a modicum of hope that we can by pulling together make this happen. So I would say be as bold as you like, start measuring. Move it forward as fast as you can. And don't be afraid because there are plenty of businesses that want to do this and that want to move forward. And the point is, if you do not future-proof your business with moving wholeheartedly and wholeheartedly embracing sustainability, then you are going to be on the backfoot very, very soon.

Will Richardson 29:58
Brilliant brilliant advice. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Rachel Boland 30:03
You're welcome. And so lovely. Lovely to be here. And thank you. Will,

Will Richardson 30:09
this has been a special case study episode of the Sustainable Business Podcast from Green Element. If you'd like more details, there are links to our webpage in the show description. And make sure you subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss an episode. And please don't forget to join our post podcast discussion at sustainabilitysolved.org A special online community where you can share ideas, views and comments, that sustainabilitysolved.org Thank you so much and see you again next time.