Season 3, Episode 108 : Steve Malkin

00:03
Steve, welcome to the Green Element Podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today. I'm really excited to understand more about Planet Mark and how you set it up, why you set it up? And what's drove you to set it up? And also to find out where you see yourself going, and what sort of things are you trying to achieve in the future?

00:28
Well, there's an intro. Yes. Thank you. There's this nail that down in the next 30 or 40 minutes. I'd love to do that. as well. Come on, then this press launch controlling and get in there. Yeah. So I'm Steve Malkin, founder of the Planet Mark, and very, very passionate about this subject we're about to talk about.

00:53
So what was your background before you set up Planet Mark?

00:56
Oh, Crunky. Okay, so I've got quite an unusual background. But anyway, to summarize it briefly. I trained as a civil engineer, years, and years ago, which I loved. I always find engineers great to work with a kind of sort of give them a problem, they'll solve it. So that was really a great background. Love that. I was doing some car racing. Interestingly, at the time, in my younger years, did some karting and car racing, and I went to work at Brands Hatch motor racing track, which we've got to wonder if any of the two jobs I've ever been employed to do. And then sort of set up my own to the PR marketing consultancy, which I ran for a number of years. Along the way, we broke some Guinness World Records. And I'm helping people you know, have great fun together, coming together to raise money for charity, but doing something really exciting at the same time. And then when I had three boys, I had a bit of an epiphany, as we all do, don't we? And realize that maybe if I had a modicum of talent, then it could be better directed. So I got into the whole sort of green thing. And have been doing that for the last 16 or 17 years.

02:10
What drove you to Planet Mark, and that kind of rather than going to consultancy, or maybe going to something like four, three, you know, other PR companies? What's drove you to a certification?

02:23
It's really, so I think that, you know, having done the marketing and the PR work, I think they've realized that everything that, you know, we can talk about with confidence and authority and is underpinned by the truth. So, and it certainly was for the type of work that we were doing in PR and marketing. So there was a nugget of truth underlying everything. When we moved into Triton, or when I moved into looking at, you know, climate issues, I think the engineering part of it came through, which is we need to measure stuff and quantify stuff, to understand what the situation is. And then if you overlay some communication on top of that, then you can support change to happen because it's evidence-based activity. And so the certification that I do really came from that. And, you know, so the ability to, to quantify activity, and change. And, you know, pay that back to people and communicate it to people then help reinforce that change and perhaps director as well. And that I suppose underpin the concepts of the certification, like the Planet Mark.

03:39
And you're unique in Planet Mark I think, he may just go actually, there are other people that do this, but you're unique in the fact that your certification, you have to reduce year on year. And in order to achieve and keep your certification. Is that right?

03:59
It is right. Yeah. And, um, I suppose we're not unique in that perspective in data. But I think, you know, we are from an annual perspective, yes, each year, every organization that we work with these too, at least, measure and reduces carbon emissions. And we're about to announce our latest stats, we have a 99.3% success rate in the Planet Mark, which we're, you know, proud of, that keeps pushing us and it helps keep pushing the organizations we work with. So you know, 99.3% of organizations who want to hold it, they get it, they retain it, and that means that they're measuring and reducing carbon, as you know, is you know, life isn't restricted to you know, it's an interconnected world. So we're also now measuring social value. And this is sort of an organization's contribution to society. So we're gonna, you know, overlay that as well as the carbon we're going to be measuring social value, as well. So, social, environmental, you know, measurement and reporting. You know, are going to go hand in hand?

04:00
As, I mean do you do what you preach?

05:09
Yes, yes. So we got to walk to talk, right? So we measure our carbon, we measure our social value. It's very important that we do that. Because that well, clearly, it's important because we ask every organization to do it, you know, every, every company on the planet could be measuring and reducing its carbon, and we would see a benefit from doing it, every single company could do that they could do it right now. So yeah, we've been doing it, we do it for, you know, obviously doing it, you know, for a long time. But also sort of you know raises sort of issues in around, you know, how do we get data? How do we improve data? And how do we continue to, you know, affect change, and, you know, reduce our emissions, given the fact that quite low. So, you know, we may need to face the same challenges as every holder in the Planet Mark, and arguably be a step ahead.

06:04
Would you? Are you able to, I'm just thinking of all these 99.3% of your businesses have reduced. I mean, is there a way for people to learn from each other on that? I mean, is that something that you're able to do?

06:21
Yeah, a hundred percent. So, you know, like, everybody out there, what we don't want to do is reinvent the wheel. And there's a lot of knowledge and great insights sloshing about in different places be on the internet, on every individuals person, you know, that has great, you know, ways of, you know, driving sustainability and delivering practical measures to do that. So, we share, you know, free content, all the time, free knowledge, toolkits, and we just put it in the public domain, and they will be able to access it, you know, so within our member network, obviously, but also, you know, outside it. So, you know, for any listener here today, if they want some information, we can, you know, give you some signposting to that, but it can come in different forms and forums, can't it, you know, so we digest and access information, access and digest information in different ways. So, we try to make it readily available for different formats, be carbon clinics, which you can get for free, roundtables, webinars, or just toolkits you can sit and read.

07:28
What's the most intuitive or kind of fun thing that you've seen an organization do? I mean, I know, that's a really hard question for me to ask, because you're not what really, we have hundreds of people. I'm just wondering if there was anything that stood out or you like, actually, a lot of them are really good? Or? Because I don't know how I would answer that myself, which is why I'm kind of...

07:49
Throwing that particular curveball in. So you know, so it's like, say, what makes you interesting? You know, so what's the most so I'd say, look, you know, first of all, creativity has got a role to play in sustainability, right? Because some of the stuff we do dealing with is quite hardcore. And some of it, you know, just doesn't float people's boats, like measuring carbon isn't everyone's cup of tea, or even talking about it. So creativity, and the ability to sort of engage people in different ways that suit them is very, very important. Our relationship with Eden Project is kind of founded on some of that stuff, I suppose. And so we try and take some of the ways that they go about dealing with tricky issues and making them very personal, very, very relevant is great to put people in touch with nature, which is a typical Eden esque type of, you know, work is a great way of doing it. A company that really springs to mind the I was kind of blown away with this. Chemical Rollings and Knitwear, Rollings and Knitwear made school uniforms, right? And they worked with factories in Egypt, I think in Asia. There're two factories there. And they're an employee-owned business of about 100 people. And what they do is they do fairly regular sustainability days, you go while everyone does those things, right? Well, this company did it really in a different way. They bought in a few different experts, the whole company shut down for a day. And, you know, groups that you know, would move from different sort of experts at setups and provide different types of conversations. Yeah. But they made it really engaging by asking people that they're pretending to games, head games in around sustainability, what we could do, how we could do things better. And then they presented to reward at the end of the day for the best ideas. There were prizes on offer, they got some, you know, some outside caterer to provide some fantastic, fabulous vegan food. They'd bake their own cake, so they just got everyone involved across the business. So yeah, there's a creative element to that this is a really practical and into it. And then what the outcomes of that activity in that day for shutting down your business to do that they got a load of really, really good ideas. Yeah. And everyone was bought in? And yeah, so I think it's that mix of practical and sort of creative.

10:18
That's cool. Brilliant. Planet Mark and it would be wrong for me not to mention ISO 14001, for example. What would you see as the fundamental differences between Planet mark and ISO 14001?

10:34
And, okay, so there's common ground in there that I suppose in many respects, we're both in, you know, environmental management systems, you know, that we kind of go about it in different ways. So, you know, 14001 is a great EMS, environmental management system, it provides a brilliant framework, doesn't it? For organizations, right? What you might need to be doing within days or, you know, to where we're different is that we were using existing company data around, you know, around consumption, B-energy, water, waste, travel, transport, that type of stuff. We collate all of those different metrics, if you like, and we net them into carbon to you take a bunch of different metrics, and we turn it into a carbon footprint for a company. So you've already got that data. Yeah, we hope, you know, collecting collating and give you a system for doing that. Turn it into carbon. And we use that as a baseline. a quantifiable baseline for performance, we're using carbon as a proxy for sustainability. To say, right, that's our carbon footprint this year. Next year, we need to reduce it to get this, you know, to hold on to the Planet Mark, how can we go about doing that? And it's that question, then that drives change, that we do better. Yeah, better one year better than next, because it's a rolling annual baseline. Your previous year is your new baseline. So you have to beat it, and beat it again. And again, and again. And what we found in doing this for the last, you know, seven years in the Planet Mark is for runners before that in over a decade is some of these companies out there have been reducing carbon relentlessly for 10 or more years. Yeah. And there could be companies in, you know, the field of Accountancy, legal or construction or wherever they are across sectors. They cut carbon relentlessly year on year on year, it's totally possible to do that. And then, the last bit in terms of, we're not an acronym, we're not a bunch of letters and numbers, right. To know, there's a long history of fan you know, you know, great work with the ISOs. Yes, fantastic. But actually, to a lot of people, they don't know what that stands for. They don't know what 14001 stands for. So we decided to call our certification, something that people might understand that if they see the Planet Mark, it might mean this. I mean, you know, they just recognize that something good is taking place here. It signifies somebody who's tackling issues around the planet in society. And, and that communication device, we think is very, very important to support change.

13:03
And you've mentioned an Eden Project. And what is that relationship you have with the Eden Project? And does that tie in with what you've just been talking about as well?

13:16
Yeah, I think so. Because we kind of went down to eat. And so we're introduced to Sir Tim Smith and his team some years ago. Eden is a charity, they're a global charity in their kind of remit is to connect people with each other and with nature. So it's about the attitudes of people driven charity. Yeah, they're about people in society, how they connect with each other to bring people together, but also to connect them with nature, which we know is very sort of life-enhancing and fulfilling. And in doing that work, even though how to sort of communicate these, these issues with an individual make them relevant to people. A million a year, people go down to eat and or they, you know, up to up to this crazy year, they did. And so, you know, so they've, they've honed this ability to communicate big issues in a very, very simple way. And that's why I wanted to partner with them. Our partnership is fairly relaxed, to be frank. So we want to connect people into Eden organizations because they help. Yeah, they help transform people in and, and organizations. And also, we believe in their work in terms of, you know, spreading the word of the importance of the environment. So we gave 5% of all of our certification fees into a business and vacation fees into Eden, and just sort of contribute to them as a charity. So it's, it's a very close, symbiotic sort of symbiotic relationship, but based on a fundamental principle that, you know, we're in a transformational time. And, you know, we and they and you and others have got a role to play in helping us transform into a thriving planet. That's what we're based in the central city.

14:56
Brilliant. What you've talked about social value and you're starting to bring social value into Planet Mark. What if you could talk more about how do you do? How do you do that? And then we could start to explore, you know, where you see you going and what you see the future holding?

15:20
Sure thing. Yeah. So, just before we do the social value part, we kind of got these three steps, which I think are really important. And that's why I've made them essential value measures and organizations' contribution to society, and it measures in terms of pounds or, or economic value, that's a nicer way of putting it. Okay, so why don't you so we've got these three steps about measurement, engagement, and communication in what we do. And I think that we, you know, work with us or anybody, those are pretty useful things to think about, just in terms of framing your sustainability program. The reason why we wanted to measure social value is that it's normally in a part in CSR. Yeah, and, you know, sometimes it's inside a company where they're great, they're great work sits in their CSR programs, but they don't know how to, to get maximum value for me, I suppose, in some respects, so that they do great stuff, but it's not always reported into a board to say, do you know, what our people are doing, you know, to support incredible work in society, you know, how we're volunteering, you know, the people that we're taking on, you know, that some of the sort of the work of our organization is, you know, goes beyond its economic impact is supporting society has a massive role to play. And so how you measure that is a series of sort of proxies that you can apply to the sort of the social work you might be doing around volunteering, and particular apprenticeships, you know, providing sort of educational support, the philanthropic giving, even cutting carbon as a social value. There are different proxies, if you like to those things, you apply those proxies to the type of work that you do, and then you equate your social value, very similar in concept to measuring carbon, a bunch of different metrics, plus the factors to those and you've got your contribution. Now, if you play that back into business, it means that number, a couple of things happen. One is they start to remind themselves about the stuff that they're already doing. Yeah, actually, we are doing incredible work to support local communities, for instance, yeah, we're employing people locally, in my blog supply chain. And then when you start to quantify it, then that kind of puts it in the language of board might understand. Yeah, and sometimes a board might say, oh, that CSR is that fluffy stuff, is nor is it? Yeah, that's just is the opposite of what it is, is that is the great, you know, intrinsic value, that organization is playing out in society. And you can equate it and give it back to a board or C suite, or wherever they are, and say, Look, this is what you're doing is great. You know, do you know that? And can you do more? This, you need to do that? They say, yeah, you know, wow, I didn't know this stuff. And if you want another tangible benefit from it, sometimes if you put your social value in a tender, or in a pre-qualification questionnaire, or a bead or something like they say, listen, we've worked out, we know where our contribution societies is this that, and, you know, these, this is what it is in terms of economic impact, but it's based on stories is the word that we're doing, is the people in our company get it. And they care about our society. So it's cultural, it's an opportunity to actually sometimes win business as well. So yeah, it

18:30
As it should be, as it should be here. Because the more people that understand how valuable it is, the more people will do it. And the more people will ask about it, self-replicating, replicating, isn't it?

18:45
A 100%, you know, so, you know, if an organization can talk with confidence, and, you know, some authority, but also some humbleness about the work that we're doing, given the fact that listen, we all know, we could be doing better in this rapidly changing world, and we're all trying to keep up with it. But you know, right now, this is what we've done. This is what we're trying to do. And this is our trajectory, then, you know, for a company to say that in the public domain. That established some evidence in support of what they're saying is truthful. There may be others who will follow suit. Because we know that purpose-led brands outperform those that aren't. That's a fact. Yeah. So, you know, this is about purpose. And companies sort of like, you know, contributing this is their time to do that.

18:51
And have you seen any common themes, trends over the last 16 years of companies? Because I know I could possibly talk about this, because we've been doing this for quite a long time. So just interesting to know you're kind of what if you've seen a difference in rhetoric in conversations that you have with people or, you know, over the last 16 or so years.

20:02
Yeah, I, I think that says we're doing it will be, right. No, it's always some. Yeah, we haven't quite got burned out yet. And so, there was a lot in our early doors, there was a lot of talk, probably greenwashing type of stuff wasn't there, I think there was a recognition 2000s ish. about stuff that was taking place, you might have gone off the boil a little bit through, you know, recession in the UK specifically. What right now, right now is different. Yeah, right now is a recognition around the need to act and act with urgency, and the recognition that you need to change to, you know, turn that action into change. It's a systemic change, and into individual change, and they will work together and hand in hand. And then we might, you know, work our way out of this sticky situation were in.

21:07
It seems that people are more on it. Now, it seems more, it seems more important. And people understand the justification of either spending money or time in an organization to ensure that your organization is going to become more sustainable and environmental.

21:32
I think it's like a, you know, there is an awakening. There is a collective consciousness. I think that organizations are coming at it from any particular angle to this regulatory requirement. Like streamliners carbon reporting, SECA is ESOS, says regulations are starting to come in, we're a trajectory to net zero, are we? Yeah, it looks a little way out. But I think it's going to be coming closer and closer to so there's that sort of systemic stuff and regulatory stuff? I think there is, you know, stuff around brand and brand opportunity and brand risk for organizations. I think you need to be seen to be doing it and doing it with, you know, being genuine. I think people want to work with organizations who are aligned with their own personal values. Yeah, who wants to work for a company, which is screwing the planet? Yeah, no one wants to do that. And if you are, well, okay, you're probably becoming more and more of a minority. So we're probably in a transition period. Now. If it was very few browsers near there's a lot going on, it looks a little bit like the last hurrah of the old way, and maybe the new way of living and working, is coming through perhaps.

22:59
Can you tell us a bit about how you engage your staff, suppliers customers with your mission and purpose?

23:07
Yeah, I suppose is an interesting one for us is because we kind of got a shared purpose, you know, serve our purposes and entities. The planet mark is what also, you know, how we, you know, very much for everyone who works with us, you know, in the company, and alongside the company, but also with every holder of the Planet Mark. And so from a purpose, you know, we kind of talk about a world where we all contribute to a thriving planet. And together, we're a collective force for good, that's sort of our underlying purpose. And our filter by which we can make our own decisions. You can imagine that inside the company, it's quite a lot of passionate and knowledgeable people. And so it is not difficult to engage our own people. What is quite difficult sometimes is saying no, because there's a lot to do, isn't there? Yeah. You know, so we're tackling carbon. And there's this, you know, that's the whole thing. We're looking at social value. That's the thing. You know, what else is on the radar? How do we embed SDGs into everything that we do, you know, quantifiably invade the SDGs? Do we look, you know, how do we ensure that every that we in our customer bases on 90 science-based targets, we're on a trajectory of a zero-carbon? How do you advise them around sort of offsetting? Yeah. How do we look at social justice diversion, diversity, inclusion, and looking at everything, about ensuring that we as an organization, are understanding our role in being positively anti-racist? Yeah, looking at accessibility into our industry into our profession from a sustainability point of view. Now there, climate change is affecting everybody and is an inclusive issue, where there are no inclusive solutions. We need every voice around the table. How can we do that now as a smallish company of 20 odd people, quite a big reach beyond that. We want to do a law. So sometimes the challenge for us is saying, Okay, listen, you know, what can we do really, really well? How can we get stuff onto the radar, which we know is important, but it's just accepting one or two things we can't tackle right now.

25:29
When it comes to running an ethical and sustainable business, what would you say your biggest struggle so far? has been? Can you tell us a bit about how you've overcome it?

25:41
So I think the biggest struggle is, is actually that saying no bit? Because we all want to do something. Right. And we want to do more and more and more, you know, is a qualitatively what we've got. And, you know, we've got a system in place to, you know, to follow our processes that measure engagement, communicate a bit, then, you know, we just have to acknowledge that we can't get everything into the planning board right now. So saying, No, I think that also, you know, we have to be very clear with ourselves and with our customer base about, it's not always what we do is how we do it. Yeah. So, you know, a lot of people want to meet us, we want to meet them, but we just acknowledge the fact we're not always going to travel. Yeah, which is more, you know, it's we made that leap now, haven't we this year, prior today, it was sometimes a bit of a challenge. So I suppose just, you know, using our purpose filter as a way that we helped to make business decisions, helps us make better decisions, as opposed to, you know, does that contribute to a thriving play? You know, etc? To get Yes or no?

26:56
And can you tell us? Could you offer a piece of advice to our listeners that can help them with their purpose? And what would that be?

27:05
Yeah, I think that is the lens. If you're clear about your, your organization, or the purpose of your organization, the first thing is to be clear. Yeah, why do you exist? Ask that question. And, you know, and then get the answers out, across your organization. That's not as from the board perspective, if you are clear about why you exist as an organization, and if you can articulate that purpose. If you have got everyone in your company bought into that, then then you're going to operate, you know, culturally, from that point of purpose. And that is a really significant, enlightening step to take. What is it? Why do you exist? And Does everyone understand that? And can we communicate that? And then how might we then go about running the business in that respect? Right now? Yeah, you know, is it this is the time for purpose-led organizations, isn't it? Because they're fleeting far enough, those are the people who've got a passion for change, and they can deliver it. This is their time.

28:21
And kind of talked about this before, forgive me for kind of, but do you any? Do you see any common themes right now? For right as in code, we are going through, as you've alluded to, we're talking four or five months? Well, it's October, beginning of October into a real difference in working. And you've been at the forefront of still certifying companies and seeing systemic change now, what five months in have, is there anything that you have seen they've gone? Wow, that's interesting. That's, that's pretty cool that this is, this is actually happening, because, you know, you really are at the kind of cutting edge of change as it were.

29:16
A year we're really fortunate to. So yeah, it's an interesting, it's, that's a great question. Because, yeah, because we can hear stuff. So I'm always asking my team to tell us what we're hearing, because we're hearing it from organizations who have chosen to do something, or those who have, you know, who are trying to figure out how to do something and are trying to figure out what's the best thing for them to do? So was to carbon, you know, reducing carbon emissions is not going away. So even though the crisis that we're in right now, this immediate crisis there in the underlying climate crisis, and its urgency have come through louder within this period. Yeah, prior to this period, there was a massive acceleration on an uptake in terms of working with companies like our play mark. And through this crisis, though, that is that momentum is still building is there? Yeah. So, you know, we've gone from incremental change on carbon to zero carbon. So in terms of something that we're seeing and hearing is definitely about zero carbon is still a desire, some desire for carbon neutral. Offsetting is coming back into play because right now to get to zero carbon, you have to be considering offsetting, at least in terms of your, you know, scope three emissions. Yeah. So, zero carbon, carbon-neutral, offsetting. Yeah, all underpinned by recognition that we should be reducing carbon annually. And you know, at scale, right, so, number one is, that's all we're hearing, too. Is that this incredible, you know, adoption of, you know, a different way of working. And, you know, through this crisis is shone a light on actually what is possible. Yeah. So we hear in that, yeah, we're talking on, you know, the zoom or Skype, whatever this is, you know, teams that's happening everywhere. People are wanting to work from home. Yeah, what does that mean? You're still figuring all that out? Are we? And, you know, without question, you know, the elevation of the structural systemic issues that face people of color, and the Black Lives Matter movement is also something that is, this period is really sort of brought to light, I think, yeah, as we're probably individually questioning, we know, what makes us tick as individuals within this city, but there's an existential moment.

31:57
And how do we learn more about you and find out more about you and Planet Mark?

32:03
Well, you can follow us on Twitter to add the Planet Mark, you could take a look at us online on the planetmark.com. And, you know, you know, people say, who do you compete with? We go, we don't, but we what we compete with is sort of, to do nothing in OSHA situation. So from the organization's perspective, we don't care who you work with just let's just get cracking together, right. And anyone in our space, we think, is doing a great job. Yeah. And we know that loads and loads of organizations out there are doing a great job, there's a lot that want to do more. And I think that's a sort of a space where we can support them, you know, other companies like ours, get your arms around sustainability, and making it sort of embedded in the company. Out cliche, actually is a bit of a challenge. So this, you know, said, but there's simple ways of doing that.

33:10
Brilliant, brilliant, thank you. Great words of wisdom of you. Is there anything? Is there anything else you want to kind of ad you were talking about?

33:22
Well, two great words of his always sort of, I think that he brings a sense of humor and humbleness to this key among these humongous issues that we face. Does not fail, doesn't it? Yeah. Otherwise, you know, it's our that's our style is to tell to make it you know, seem doable. Yeah. And if he could bring a sense of levity to some very tough times and tough situations, then it just helps keep everything moving and on the radar. And we know that climate anxiety is a real thing, across ages and demographics. And particularly, you know, worrying amongst young people, isn't it? Yeah. So sometimes there's a way to turning, you know, you know, eradicating some anxiety by taking action that really helps too, yeah, so I have no, there's no wisdom, that my personal way of dealing with this thing is to try and be on the front foot about it, and just have a slightly lighter touch to it in places. Yeah, that just helps keep me going on a personal basis. Yeah,

34:43
I think you have to have to just be positive. And, as you say, front foot forward-thinking. Just thinking about the future and pushing yourself and the organization you're working for.

34:58
It can be a tough time but, you know that is exciting as well. Right? And in a semi says What did you do? You know, I want to make sure I've got an answer to that.

35:12
Brilliant. Steve, thank you so much for having for coming on to the show today. And for talking to me as always, it was an absolute pleasure. Thank you.

35:21
You are a star. Yeah. put that out there. Thank you.