Season 3, Episode 103 : Roxy Rocks-Engelman

00:00
Roxy, welcome to the green element podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today, I am really looking forward to, I guess, delving more into cafe direct and what it is that you guys do from a sustainability point of view. I mean, yes, you are actually you are a client of ours, which is amazing and awesome. But so therefore I do know a bit more about the your organization than I normally do when I interview people, but saying that I also know what an amazing organization you are and what you actually have achieved over the years that you've been around. And that's the bit that we want to try and draw out and pull together. So welcome to the podcast.

00:43
Thank you Well, yeah, very excited to be here and to be involved in your series And we are really excited because I think caffeine direct particularly at the moment and we actually being advertised on TV which is our first ad campaign in 10 years, which is pretty incredible, like honestly watching Channel four after 24 hours in emergency and suddenly you see cafe direct advert and Machu Picchu and the you know, the mountains rise and it's, it's incredible. So, it's very exciting time for Cafédirect and despite all the challenges, and but yeah, very happy to talk a little bit more about our impact.

01:26
Because you've been a massive drive, would it be fair said driving force within the coffee industry? Because you I mean, you really are a trendsetter as an organization?

01:39
And, yes, me obviously little bit biased here and being the sustainability communications manager and but no, seriously? Yes, we are. Because I think because of how and I think it's always important to look at how companies are formed and who owns companies to really understand That kind of intentions and cafe direct was formed in 1991 by four UK charities in response to the international coffee crisis where the markets are suddenly plummeted, which meant that lots of coffee farmers are also relying on coffee as part of their income. It was costing them more money to make the coffee than it was then they were receiving it. So sorry, I've explained that badly. Essentially at the impact was felt kind of globally and across the coffee countries and I'm Oxfam twin trading equal exchange and trade craft came together and as a response to find, essentially that a kind of direct trade like a way to actually support producers by selling coffee here and in other countries, but predominately UK then and then paying a fair price directly. I'm not really going to try to say sorry, I've got a small, small Beagle puppy. That's keen to join in on this conversation.

03:15
Brilliant. So, cafe direct was set up in 19, the early 90s by four different charities. And from what I know, you really have and I guess I don't want to say control, but um, you buy off the farmers in say, Peru, because you just talked about the Machu Picchu adverts and you cultivates that crop, pulling it and then distribute it to the customer in the UK or wherever they are in the world. And by having that authority over your whole supply chain means that you are able to pay a much fairer price. Does that mean that the Peruvian crop farmer, it only sells to you or can they actually book can they sell to other people?

04:20
Oh yeah, no. So, part of our ambitions really so our whole mission is around empowering smallholder growers to improve their livelihood. So, part of that is that we want smallholder farmers to be able to diversify that business and that means by selling to other customers as well as us, so no one exclusively sells just to cafe direct. And, and so that's and then just to pick up as well, we are the cafe to act over. So next year, we will have been trading for 30 years and going back to my earlier point, so we Your setup really is a social enterprise. So that means the we reinvest our profits into our mission, which is empowering smallholder growers. And partly that comes from us because of our because of our mission and our ambitions and for smallholder growers, we we've always worked quite differently so and another considerations that we were one of the first UK coffee companies to certify 100% Fairtrade products, so in 1994, so 25 years ago now and we believe we were the first roasting ground coffee company to be certified fair trade, and it was about paying what was fair. So it's at cafédirect at the moment, I think the challenges is that there are a lot of different factors of C make and make sort of supporting growth is quite challenging and you know, and it always has been, but one of the consistent ones is the volatility of the stock market. So, and because coffee is sold as a commodity, and it can change, you know, ever in any given day, the price can be different. And for anyone running a business or even your own business will, and you know, as Avaya in the past and I you know, and I think everyone appreciates it. The ability to be able to predict your income and have a little bit more control over that it's really essential to invest in your in your business. And it's the same for smallholder growers and be it coffee, tea, cocoa, if you need some sense of stability around your income. And so, and in terms of cafe threat, being fair trade means that we pay a minimum of $1 40 cents per pound and additionally, to that, we pay an additional 20 cents, which brings us up to 160. And then we now source over half of our coffee is organic certified by the soil Association. And then on top of all of that, that takes us to 190. Bear in mind that when I last checked the market, it was it was about 104. So, you can see that we're kind of approaching almost double. And then we also make an investment in a charity that we set up and 10 years ago and called producers direct. Before that they were called cafe direct producers foundation. And essentially, they're really innovative. They're independent to us, but we fund them.

07:43
So, rocks and producers direct and they are a subsidiary of cafe direct, aren't they? And could you tell us more about them, please?

07:54
Yeah, sure. Well, yeah, not so much subsidiary. So, when Kevin was founded, we have a charity called cafe direct, produces Foundation, through donated money to support growers. And then in 2009 producers direct was formed, but its own board and it's an independent charity. But we continue to invest money into producers direct annually. And producers direct are really interesting because they are growing labs really as a as an organization. So that means that smallholder growers sit on the board as they do at Cafe direct and, and they really help inform kind of what's actually needed on the ground to make a difference and to smallholder growers of livelihoods but also just their quality of life and development in terms of business and accessibility for young people and women to be involved and make your kind of independent economic living as well. So they do really enjoy interesting projects, including the kind of buzzword at the moment and sustainability if I may, and it seems to be around and restorative landscapes and, and a kind of, I feel like I hear that a lot from other farmers. And, again, from just the style of how cafe direct works, we've been working with juice direct and on a project in the northern part of Peru, so northern Dino corporative and basically helped support a small community and to incentivize them to plant a whole load of trees to support the soil but also to kind of set up a relationship between this community and a coffee Co Op Noreen Dino below and, and if that happened over 10 years ago. And it's interesting now that I'm just from that kind of thinking I write, I write from back then how We seem to be slightly ahead of that sense of, I'm looking at regenerative agriculture and yeah, restorative landscape as a way to sort of support communities. So that was a bit of a tangent. And but yeah, so just they're out there. They're brilliant. They've actually worked, give you some stats. And over the last 10 years, I've worked with over 1.3 million smallholder growers and communities, and which, which is incredible. And also, they've increased, and the average smallholder grows income by 50%, as well. So, say they Yeah, yeah.

10:40
So, having them on board is it gives you a more of a holistic view of the whole you know, everything within your supply chain, isn't it? It's, it's a bit like VW has I mean, it's not really the same, but it is kind of same principles. It's a bit like VW have I think they've, they had a teenager, they put a teenager on their board, because they wanted to understand what future people look like. So, it's that kind of very different kind of same, if that makes sense.

11:14
Yeah. Now I can see that a stretch definitely Yeah. Having fitted to stretch.

11:25
You've just given us some statistics about producers direct, which kind of feeds us quite nicely into your impact report which you produce on an annual basis. And would you like to just pull some information out of that for us so that we can start to understand the impact that you guys have?

11:49
Sure, yes, I am. It's been quite exciting. So, for me, like quite a few companies and it seems to be around sort of, May, June July that kind of got the opportunity. To reflect back on the year that's gone. And so, for us, yeah, 2019 is what we were focusing on what we've been talking about recently. And some interesting kind of areas of impact. So, since 2004, we've contributed over 90 million pounds worth of impact. To put that in slightly more useful context. That means just from last year, and we made a profit of just over a million pounds, so mean and 200, something like that. And we invested a million of that back into impact. And so therefore, our profit was at around 200 K. And so that sort of shows you genuinely how committed we are as a social enterprise to invest monies back into impact, and really, that's broken down into three key areas. And so, one is through fair trade I mentioned earlier, so I'm the premium that 20 cents per pound, really adds up. So, I'm over a slightly longer term, so 2004 to last year, and we've invested over 10 point 6 million pounds in fair trade premiums. And what that really means is it's an opportunity for co-ops to cheese themselves, how best to spend that money. And so whether it's improving the quality because they're buying a new washing station to wash their coffee, and it's much better than everyone can benefit from that, for investing in sort of infrastructure, the sort of things that we're probably familiar with, like water projects, and schools, buildings, that sort of thing. And, and then there's quite a lot of sort of softer skills and more sort of training on how to kind of name and assimilate other people and to support them through that journey of how to share and collaborate on best agricultural practice. Those sorts of activities. And we've also invested money through purchasing organics. So last year headline, and for us is that we now source over half of our coffee is certified organic by soil Association. So, we'll I mean, you will appreciate as a running green element and environmental consultancy that investment in organic and can have some really interesting impacts.

14:30
Yeah, and so will all those impacts?

14:34
Is the quality better because it's organic? Because you do hear that the quality doesn't necessarily change. And, I mean, what are the ramifications of having organic it's obviously a good thing because cafe director has gone for it, but it'd be interesting to know what the good reasons are?

14:54
Yes, so I'm very conscious that it's going to be organic September as a campaign next month in September. Am I think organic is…

15:03
one word out this will be going out after probably you've put out an awful lot of information so don't worry too much about that. Okay,

15:10
good tonight I'm it organic if the reason I'm hesitating is because I feel like organic is one of those and hot topics. Lots of different people probably much better informed than myself have quite strong opinions on. I'm obviously just speaking from cafe address perspective, and we understand organic Well, it's partly informed by cooperatives. So, um, as I keep mentioning we our core mission is to empower smallholder growers and improve livelihoods. And as important as that really because they obviously go hand in hand is supporting the ecosystem and the environment around that. And so, a lot of the coffee Co Op That resource rooms we currently source from 20 coffee cups directly. And they have been using methods that would qualify for them to be selling their products are certified organic, but not all of them are able to afford to pay the fees to be certified. And, but a lot of them actually have been in practice are doing the sorts of things that you need to be to be certified organic. So, for example, and that means sourcing kind of local natural inputs. And so rather than relying completely on artificial fertilizers that can be expensive to buy in and, and transport because obviously with a lot of the coffee co-ops that we sourced from there and grown out of cheat on quite steep hillsides and you know logistically it's quite challenging to farm and the whole wonderful thing around smallholder farmers as well, apart from that they provide 70% of the world's food is that they, you know, they're kind of family run and land. So generally speaking, about two football pitches worth of kind of land that they're farming anyway, so going back to organic, so, and being able to kind of invest in your land is key to your profitability, and it makes commercial sense. And, and so yeah, the shorthand organic is that you're trying to use your natural inputs. And you are, yeah, it means that you're trying to create an ecosystem where other diversity can kind of flourish. So that might be in that you're not just growing one a crop, but you're integral shopping. And so, you've got food that you're growing amongst like the coffee cherries so that you can benefit and sell it locally and it's an additional income for your family as well as selling coffee. And, and that sort of diversity in your planting means that you've got more nutrients in the soil, which tracks different wildlife, and because of the variety and so on, so it's kind of building I see it's building up a kind of picture of good health by providing all the members and there are different regenerative strategies around and it also depends on the actual crop. So, whether you're talking cotton, or tea, I think is quite a different approach to coffee. But yeah, from a coffee perspective, as a shorthand we feel like it's, it's a positive step two, respecting our environment and that is part of our kind of longer-term strategy. To make sure that we are and yeah, approaching things in the restorative way, and yeah, not depleting.

19:10
Okay, that makes that makes complete sense. And I mean, this is this question is about carbon footprinting. And I know that you're hungry going carbon footprinting at the moment, because we're helping you do that. So, I'm not going to ask you, you know, what, what I'm interested to know is what are the drivers for that carbon footprinting? And I think I'm asking you this because I think that it's useful for other companies to know what why the reasons why you are carbon footprinting as an organization, because, yeah, I'm not going to put those into math,

19:47
huh? No, thank you. So well, we did a carbon footprint in 2014. And, and caffeine went three, some sort of changes. I think It was it was quite a tough time for the company sort of last few years. And, and that meant that cafeteria has concentrate on sort of, yeah, so key activity to the business and last couple of years and we sort of Yeah, I kind of business came through again and was becoming so profitable again and just sort of tracking really well. And, and, and with that as an opportunity to sort of focus again and just on, on sort of looking at are just really our environmental impact as well as and carbon is kind of one measurement of that, and, and really is driven the drivers is because we have aspirations over the next 10 years like lots of companies that have been sharing their targets, and cafe throughout as well. We have something called the gold standard, which is our sustainability Strategy over a 10-year period. So, I've involved in kind of looking at where we've got to and kind of what we want to be doing over the next 10 years aligned with the Sustainable Development Goals as well, the course also been to 2030 at the moment. And, and I think, you know, as I keep saying, cafeteria, it's always been pretty innovative. You know, we were the first UK Coffee Company to be certified to be core in 2018. You know, prior to that we were one of the first companies like I've mentioned to be fair trade and, and, and all those sorts of things. So, I think we tend to look at doing the right thing first, and it makes sense for us, but also as our business model. And of course, you can't ignore the environment. I mean, in terms of supply chain, when you're looking at security of supply, and making sure that coffee farmers and tea farmers and cocoa farmers have livelihoods and you have to click here Ways of supporting them through, you know, I'd say quite radical action and radical action, I think means taking responsibility as a business for, you know, your entire supply chain. And that includes looking at your impacts both positive and negative. And, and then also being transparent about that process and inviting others encouraging others in your sphere of influence, which for us is, you know, coffee and other coffee companies in the UK but also we've got community in Europe, we've got a community in the US and so on to Yeah, to really advocate for tea things and I think our big focus is around living income, which is essentially looking at what farmers need to actually live on and have some money left over. After the cost of production because I think there is still a huge disparity because it is so complicated country by country what that actually is so almost equivalent to working out what the London living wages, for example, but doing that with all the other factors and then simultaneously in terms of the environment is being able to help protect and people's livelihoods. And you know, we've already seen this year this year, which obviously has been dominated by COVID. But just prior to that, and some of corporatism were massively affected by heavy rainfalls and flooding and last known property and crops and you know, and other implications from that tea and that's a regular and sadly a really regular occurrence and something else that calf iDRAC can't solve by itself but really wants to be in a position T and be collaborative and work with others to D that I'm including Jesus direct but also other coffee companies. So very secure beautifully. So, it's very long answer but I think, um, in terms of our ambitions around climate, we've become very aware of the conversations and in different communities that we're part of. So whether that be social enterprise fair trade, be core, and the industry as to looking at ways to and yeah, support growers and I think the ambitions that we're you know, we were looking at, we were looking at in terms of cop 26, for example, this year, and, and also ambitions that are coming through in the UK from retailers. So, Tesco, for example, and have been really vocal about their ambitions for

24:49
like recycling for example and wanting lots of brands that they sell to, to adhere to kind of

24:57
more widely

25:01
recycled packaging, etc. that can have a huge knock on effect. And so, there's an appetite for it. I mean, that's a different conversation that's around I suppose Zero Waste but looking at the drivers, it's really just so we can and yeah, the we want to be forward thinking I mean and we are concerned about yeah the impacts of climate events and manufacturing and on our planet. And yeah and so also to add to that, so I'm gonna get for animated now but now that cop 26 has moved to next year. And I think there's a real opportunity in the UK over next now you know, 12 months we've got 12 plus months, and to really pull together and we're noticing cafe got and noticing much more this kind of even cross industry interest in trying to again Sort of knowledge and really be genuinely collaborative on how we can, you know, make better decisions collectively around, you know, packaging and manufacturing how we really do the things much better so that we can meet these targets. And but you're in a position an email to explain sort of the benefits from your perspective of

26:23
Yeah, and

26:24
I think the benefits are very different to every company because it depends on the drivers that are, you know, drivers being what are the reasons for an organization to do their or complete carbon footprints and sometimes it can be as simple as actually that's what people in the staff once or our supplies are wanting it a wealthy clients, more clients really because you're a part of a supply chain. So, for example, if you are sending to test goes then test goes to notoriously ask quite a lot of questions about sustainability. cynically say that in the past, nothing was done about it. So, they had all this information now. But I actually think that we're starting to see a growing trend of information being gathered by larger organizations and actually wanting to understand what their suppliers are doing and how it is that they can help them be. And because we're seeing much more of a common theme amongst organizations of carbon aborting and completing environmental management holistically, because all parts of the business stakeholders shareholders, which would incorporate absolutely everyone are wanting to work or, you know, be a part of an organization that is more sustainable. And let's face it, a more sustainable organization is more likely to last the long haul now. And we're seeing massive growth within purpose driven businesses. So be The B corpse and the like. And organizations that are putting sustainability at the forefront are seeing growth that outstrips organizations that are not putting those sorts of mission led parts of the business in the forefront.

28:22
Hmm. Yeah. Again, I think it's challenging for the bigger businesses as in, you know, the Unilever's, etc. to kind of fight turning a massive cruise ship round, isn't it when you're not really built with sustainability necessarily at your core, as a driver for your business and to kind of get on board with it now and which is fantastic when the initiatives that are happening I think is quite different experience to some of the startups that are quite noon satisfying is be cools and I'm really going to integrate sustainability right from The beginning as to how they're operating and Banyan. But yeah, I think he said that much more succinctly than me. Well, I'm

29:09
not really I think this is the reason for the podcast is not to listen to what I think it's or what we think a green element is much more about what you think, because it is companies like you that we try and aspire to. And I think that it's really important to listen to what other people are doing and what's driving them, and why they're doing it and how they're doing it. Because that's how we can better ourselves and get better at being sustainable. And I think I've got one of my final questions is around COVID. And you mentioned a COVID project at the beginning of this, it would be interesting to just understand what your What do you mean, what this is about?

29:56
Yeah, absolutely. Um, I think thank you for asking. about it. So, probably last month we held a webinar, sort of industry lads been invited and British coffee satiation. But retailers and sort of all people that kind of touched supply chains not just coffee and tea, understand some of the impacts that Coronavirus is having on smallholder growers, specifically in Latin America. Because from Katherine's perspective, we've resource over half our coffee from Peru and producers direct. And as I've mentioned before, have people on the ground there and got projects running there and, and we're very kind of aware of, of some of the impacts that are happening and produced direct have been working with really interesting organizations including Mercy Corps, a Griffin and design agency called IDEO and others. To create a really clear set of materials to help smallholder growers understand how to protect themselves from Coronavirus because part of the part of the problem and it's the same here isn't it and you know, false knees and myths and all of it and how quickly that information can be shared, and not necessarily be true. There's a similar challenge and affecting producers with misinformation being shared on WhatsApp groups and so on. So, for example, one of the myths which I find to be honest, the most shocking is that if you wash your coffee with bleach, you'll be protected from coronavirus and

31:53
that's the thing that Trump would say,

31:54
well, lane not to make this political but there have been questions as to Yeah, how that titular idea came into fruition and passed down but anyway, I'm still

32:07
injecting bleach to stop somebody reading

32:12
Yeah, um I'm gonna sidestep away for now because I know this is public so I'm just try to be professional but um but yeah I and lots of other thing things like you know, if he swallow garlic or you wear garlic then that will prevent transmission in Coronavirus and so on. So anyway, so, t things really and so producers direct as I said with these partners have created some really visuals so even if he can't read or write and it's clear, some of the actions you can take like we know what's in your hands and wearing a mask and so on. And it also kind of aligned to some other activities that fair trade have been. been supporting, which is By the Fairtrade premium during Coronavirus, has been made available centuries, a pot of money for any Co Op can apply for it, to get protective equipment and tea and get things quickly that are going to help support them. And, and the course. And what was lovely as I am, we had other NGOs on the call as well. And so, including Oxfam, who were really interested, I thought the materials were really clear and really engaging. And they wanted to use that to share with their supply chains tea. So really, if you're interested in the project, and, you know, unfortunately, it's likely that you know, in a few months’ time, it might still be necessary to kind of share this information that's helpful. So, for anyone working in supply chains, and you're welcome to either get in touch with me directly or just go on producer’s direct website and they've got a COVID-19 section and it has all the materials there. I'm so

34:01
yeah, so that's

34:02
just one thing that we you know, at Cafe direct working alongside produce direct but other partners and other coffee companies as well like brilliant like union and tailors and, and others that you'll be familiar with. And we, you know, what is exciting as I keep coming back to you is the opportunity to be collaborative. And, and I think from that point on, we're also hoping that and the conversations we're having to help support producers with COVID are the same kinds of conversations initiatives, we can work together as community tea support in terms of climate, which is also obviously prevalent as an issue.

34:46
brilliant, brilliant. Um, that's, yeah, that sounds absolutely fantastic. Um, thank you so much for being on the podcast today. It's been it's been absolute pleasure. It's been an absolute blast. It's as well. I wonder if our listeners will be able to work it out behind the scenes. How long This podcast is last week? I think they had a podcast caught like it wrong. So, watch for this. It has been, it has been really interesting listen to you, and cafe direct and watts, cafe director, and more help for organizations like yourselves to be in existence. So, thank you.

35:33
Thank you. No thanks. So, it's been a real pleasure, obviously, I would say, yeah, you if listeners want to know anything else, I obviously look at our website and the impact reports available. And you know, try the coffee, give us some feedback, and it's all available in your main retailers. And we're really excited to be working with our green element of seeing and getting understanding of our impact. From a carbon perspective and addressing that tea, so if thank you so much for inviting us on well, and then, hopefully, you know, maybe we'll just be your guest speaker every other month, you know, just

36:17
in his boots.

36:19
Yeah. And so, we'll put on our websites, what ways the best place to get hold of you through Twitter, etc. It would be great to maybe link to your impact report on a podcast as well. So, thank you very much. Thank you. All right.

36:33
Take care.