Season 4, Episode 118 : Rochelle Turner

Will Richardson 00:04
Welcome to the Green Element Podcast, Rochelle. Thank you so much for joining us today. You are Rochelle Turner. You're the head of research and insights for MaCher. Please, could you tell us a bit more about yourself and MaCher?

Rochelle Turner 00:18
Sure, thanks, Will. Thanks for having me here. And so, I am a researcher by background and researching consumers and consumer behaviour. So I've worked for companies that make me stand on street corners and ask people questions, all the way up to looking at reports and lots and lots of data and trying to make sense of that data throughout the year. So I have for my sins, yeah, interviewed people and called them up or say stood in the rain and asked people, please, please, please stop and ask me quite an answer my questions. So it's a long learning curve for trying to understand how people get the answers that they need. And just the sort of dogged determination that researchers need to be able to get information from consumers, it's a bit easier nowadays that you can sort of look at what internet trends are or what spending trends are. But back in the day, that information was a little bit more difficult to come from. So my share where I work now is a sustainable design firm. We make promotional products for companies. So if a company is looking to give a gift to their clients, we can make that gift if a company is looking to give a gift to its staff, you know, staff t-shirts or staff Christmas presents, we can make those gifts as well. And so we work with all sorts of companies that see the value in building customer loyalty through a gifting programme. And that might be travel brands, it might be beauty brands, or alcohol and spirits, and educational institutions as well, when they're trying to attract students to come or retailers and other sectors. And we are a company that does the whole process, we design something, we manufacture it, we distribute all of those gifts to the companies that have asked for those to be made. And we also, I think more and more these days follow up with with the research. And that's sort of where I come in to look at what is the ROI that gets delivered from doing these kinds of gifts in the first place. So all companies we recognise, you know, have limited marketing budget, so why spend it on a gift rather than spending on promotions or, or some other activity and discounts. And so we look at the ROI. And we also look at a lot of academic research to show why one might want to give a certain type of gift over another type of gift, for example. And again, that's sort of where my role comes in. And we look at that academic literature around happiness or around the kinds of GWP gifts with purchase. And, and and how, actually, it's really quite interesting that returns are far lower when a gift is given because of the connection, the psychological connection that's made between products and gifts. And so companies can actually save a lot of money on their returns if they're giving a gift with purchase. And so these are the kinds of things that we're always testing, and always talking to our clients about.

Will Richardson 03:23
That's really interesting. It's, and you're actually I don't think I mentioned it, you're a certified B Corp. And therefore, sustainability will also run quite heavily through your hence why we're talking today. And through your, you know, whole business, and ethos, and how is that taken into consideration through those gifts?

Rochelle Turner 03:54
Well, sustainability is absolutely fundamental to what we do. So it comes in at absolutely every stage. So quite often, and perhaps unusually, for a company that makes promotional products, we will often say to the people that we're speaking to our clients, or people that are looking to be clients, actually, what you're suggesting, you shouldn't do, save your money, do something else. Because, you know, there's no point in making something that is just going to be wasted. We really pride ourselves and make sure that what we're trying to do has a reusable element, as well as a useful element to it. And so, if someone is saying, right, we have $1, we have $2 to spend on this product, you know, If you think about all of the elements that make up making a product, we're designing a product getting it made getting it shipped, and getting it distributed. What is the value of that product? you know, at each of those different stages, and we might actually say and do very often say I can save your money, it's not worth doing that kind of thing. And we have to do something that's better and more sustainable in the long run. We also use sustainable materials. So a lot of the products we use are, for example, sustainable water bottles or recycled fabrics, or a lot of material that comes from waste itself. These are some really interesting products that you can get from recycled pineapples, for example, or the pineapple skins that are turned into fabrics or what's really interesting is the windscreen, so windscreens in cars. And because to stop them from freezing, they have an element of plastic in between the different layers of the windscreen glass. And so when those windscreens are taken to the junkyards you can remove that plastic and then we can make a product from it, which actually looks almost like leather. And so again, you're turning something that was waste into a product. And then you know, looking throughout other elements of our supply chain, so that when we're sending things, we're not sending them in plastic bags, and we're shipping things and in the most sustainable way. And, and just looking at all of those elements to make sure that we are doing the right thing for the environment and also for our supply partners and the people that are working in the companies or the factories that we're getting the product from, and also that say we're making a product that isn't just going to go to waste, and it's not having any value to in the first place.

Will Richardson 06:31
Brilliant, that's, um, that's, that's really, it's really good. It's really good. And I think I love the ingenuity around using different products. And the fact that you say no to people, I think that's actually really important, isn't it? Because some could look at you and I'm being completely you know, Frank, and go gifts from businesses to people. We've all seen those gifts. And we've all been given pens or stuff that you just go, Why and then, particularly at the conferences, and personally, I just say No, and I feel I have to explain it to them. I'm really sorry, it's not that I don't want like you as a company, but I really just don't want to come away with 15 different pens, I just don't need them.

Rochelle Turner 07:21
We're trying to solve problems, you know, so we're not just trying to give a gift, we're trying to solve a problem. So we, for example, had a cruise line client and the cruise line client was giving away water bottles to its customers in all of its staterooms. And so we teamed up with a water dispenser provider and made a stainless steel water bottle, we know that the energy it takes to make stainless steel is still quite significant, but actually looked at how many times it would need to be used in the way it was manufactured in order for it to be better than a plastic water bottle. Anyway, so what we ended up doing was making these stainless steel water bottles, and it managed to take out 56 million plastic water bottles out of circulation for this cruise line client over a two year period. Now, I think that is quite a significant and development. And it's something that we're trying to do again, solving a problem, we had another client that you know, a very, very high-end Safari company. And the high-end Safari company used to take people from the airport, the main airport, it would arrive in to the lodge in the safari area. And because of people's luggage, it would have to travel twice because the planes were only big enough to hold the people and not the luggage at the same time. And so it would have to make these two journeys. And so we designed a really beautiful bag that meant that once the people were on the plane, these bags could also fit in the plane. And people wanted to use these bags because they were beautifully designed. And so then that meant that so much extra fuel was saved by not having to fly the plane twice, you could just fly at once. So these, like quite simple problems that actually sometimes do have a design and a gift solution to them. Which actually means that people then will go on and reuse either that water bottle or that bag, and there isn't a lot of far longer chain to what we're trying to do.

Will Richardson 09:34
That's brilliant. That's really good. That's cool, isn't it? Um, can you tell us a bit about how you engage your staff, suppliers, and customers with your mission and purpose?

Rochelle Turner 09:47
Sure. So um, the staff one is really interesting actually, because we have a president and the directors of the company who are absolutely 100% engaged in sustainability. The B Corp movement in, in progress as well, I think in the B Corp movement, and what we found, quite interestingly, a couple of years ago was that the staff probably weren't as engaged in this mission they didn't. And, you know, about two, three years ago, they didn't see it as something that actually brought value to the business. And so we worked with them. And we, you know, we had lots of conversations about why this actually wasn't cutting through and why they weren't necessarily seeing the link between one and the other. And our, our president, and the sustainability manager came up with the idea of everybody having an individual sustainability KPI, so in addition to all of the other KPIs that they're doing, and they had one that was specific for sustainability. And so one of my colleagues, for example, started an office composting programme, and, you know, they're based in LA, and composting in LA is, it's not something that is as common as it is you don't get roadside or hillside collection of composting, like you do here in the UK. And so they started in an office in composting programme, and another of my colleagues started looking at the use of plastic and wrapping all of the individual gifts that get sent from the factories to the client, and how we could first of all start measuring and monitoring that, but then look at alternative ways of sending those, those products so that we don't have as much plastic in use in circulation in terms of the shipping and, and looking at different ways of shipping that so by having these sustainability KPIs, and we are able then to engage our staff better. And I think just over the last couple of years, they've really started engaging in this and see more about how the value proposition can be strengthened by our focus on sustainability. And I think, again, over the last few years, and businesses have seen a real need for, you know, to be more sustainable, you know, we've seen a lot of discussion about waste, we've seen a lot of discussion about plastics in the ocean, and companies are getting on board with that. And so they are now far more open, I think, to the idea that, you know, we are making things that would have come from waste or would just be ended up in landfill and they liked that idea. And they're now looking at how they can tell that story. So here is a gift for your, for your customers. And here is a gift that not only hasn't been made through an ethical and well source supply chain, it is also it has also been made with waste. And actually, it is sort of tells their story as well that they are on that journey for sustainability.

Will Richardson 12:59
Okay, and it, would you say it was a big part of your communications with your suppliers and customers as well, that sustainability journey?

Rochelle Turner 13:13
It absolutely is. I mean, it's not something that always gets, and it's always there, it's always there in the background. And for some customers, it's absolutely the first thing that they want to talk about. And others, we have to sort of help steer them towards that journey. And so like I mentioned at the beginning, you know, some might come to us immediately and say, right, we have this amount of budget to spend, what can you make for that? And we turn around like why are you making this? That's always like the first thing. Why are you doing this? Is it you know, that you're trying to create loyalty? Is it because you've got a problem, you've got too many products that are being returned? Is it because you've got this problem with plastics in your supply chain that you're trying to get rid of? What is that reason? And by starting with that, why it helps them open up a conversation about what are the things that they can do and how we can help work with them to perhaps make something that is less energy-intensive, or less wasteful, and more useful for the long run?

Will Richardson 14:18
Okay. Okay. And when it comes to running an ethical and sustainable business, what would you say has been your biggest struggle so far? And can you tell us a bit about how you've overcome it?

Rochelle Turner 14:30
I think it's always um, you know, it's always a struggle to find the right suppliers. So we're, you know, we're ultimately a manufacturing firm. So we do all of our design and logistics in our LA office. And but we have a lot of overseas factories that we use and a lot of them are, you know, fully sedex certified to the highest level that they can be, but then there are others that are only on that journey. And so how do you work with those suppliers in other countries when you are only one small part of their business, so these suppliers are not, and these factories are not just working for us, you know, we don't own them, we don't control them. So we can only work with the ones that we can get to and we can, you know, encourage them that we want to work with them. But if we are only a small player in that we need to galvanise the others that are working in that same factory and show the factory owners why it is beneficial for them to have that set of certification or in sign the UN Human Rights declarations or have audited and third-party audited, you know, systems, so that we can make sure that we are working with the best people and that, you know, everything that we do can be 100% bonafide and we can be really proud and pleased to say that those are our suppliers. I mean, we are but you know, when you're trying to, to start with a new product or start with a new material, sometimes you have to go out and find these new factories that might not actually adhere to the standards that you would like to do.

Will Richardson 16:20
That makes sense, that makes complete sense. And so I'm focusing more on MaCher as a business. And as an organisation. What kind of steps have you taken as an organisation to be more sustainable yourself?

Rochelle Turner 16:36
So, um, we've done a lot in terms of, you know, our own operations, say everybody has individual sustainability KPIs, we are in the process of putting solar on our roofs, we've just signed a commitment to the sustainable, the science-based targets initiative. And so we are going to now and actually just had those approved, actually, so we're out, congratulations.

Will Richardson 17:07
That's really, really cool. Yeah,

Rochelle Turner 17:09
We're going to be announcing that just this week. And because yeah, that's really cool to have them approved. And, so, you know, we are doing a lot to make sure that we are doing the right thing that we're making sure our climate goals are aligned with the UN and the Paris Agreement. And our say, our factories are sedex certified, we have four out of our 10 biggest factories, our level for sedex certified. And we're hoping to increase that by two-level fours over the next two years. And the rest are level two sedex certified. 92.5% of our factories that we use have third party audits and certifications for environmental or social behaviours. And, and that's going to go up to 100%. So there's, you know, there are all these different systems that we put into place and to make sure that we're filling that on sustainability on it from an environmental perspective, but also from a staffing and employment perspective, and also working in our communities and do a lot in our local community, but also reaching out to make sure that some of the products that we make, you know, might be going to factories that are where people who are in socially deprived areas might need some help, you know, there's a really interesting factory that we're in good conversations with in Brazil, which uses ex offenders. And there are lots of cooperatives that we're using to make, you know, even really niche products, that where companies want to spend a little bit more money, that money will then go into the communities and help either women or youth or, or people say with different social issues that help to address the causes of deep poverty or lack of skills in certain places.

Will Richardson 19:13
I'm always I'm, it's amazing. It's one of the great things about interviewing different companies, like yourselves is just how intuitive, intuitive you know how clever people and organisations are, and the stories that they tell about what it is they're doing. And it's that positive impact that organisations like you have on the rest of the world. And it just shows that we really are starting to work as a kind of, you can't, as a listener can't see me making the world in my arms. But it's kind of it is though, isn't it? It's we are becoming a world.

Rochelle Turner 19:59
I think we're trying to. I mean, I think it's also about recognising your role in the business that you play. So we know that in the corporate gifting, and promotional products world, is a dirty world, we know that. And we are trying, as we can to do our bit to help clean it up. And there are other promotional product companies that are also moving in the direction that we are, and, and hopefully, over time, you know, all companies, if they say they care about the environment, we'll look to companies like ours, because we can help with that risks that they've got, you know, what's the point of a company making and making a product, if that company is also saying how environmentally sustainable it is, and how important the green movement is to their business, if, you know, they're giving away things that actually don't meet, and certified standards, or if they don't meet the chemicals? You know, the prop 40, or the prop 65, chemical testing that's required, or it's just going to go to waste is it lessens the impact I think of, of their companies. And, and so yeah, we recognise that we have a small role to play in, in trying to say, clean up our industry, but also, you know, we're a business like many, many millions and billions of other businesses around the world. And we have to adhere to the right guidelines on climate, on biodiversity, on treating workers fairly, on being good to our community and supporting, you know, everything it is about being. It's really having that license to operate in the world.

Will Richardson 21:48
No, that's this. Yeah, it's just so important. And is there any advice or learning that you'd like to share with everyone listening to this podcast on some of the aspects of the organisation that we've talked about today?

Rochelle Turner 22:04
I think, you know, this is a journey. And it doesn't, it doesn't happen in one day, that small steps are really good steps. And I think one of the things that's really interesting is that, and certainly in places I've worked before, that fear of the unknown can be paralysing. And so you know, you have to do things like you have to cut back on your emissions. But if you, if you don't know how to do that, there are a lot of people out there that might not do anything, and then it's the same with it at home, right, you know that you have to cut back on your food waste. But if you don't know how to cook, or you don't know how to manage the food that you've got in the fridge, how you're going to cut back on food waste, if you don't know how to do those things. But sometimes you just have to make that first step, you just have to make that commitment. So on the science-based targets initiative, for example, you know, we knew it was the right thing to do, we knew that we had to commit to the 1.5 degree. And because the world needs to get rid of its carbon and in the world needs to start to manage climate change, because it's, you know, the number of storms that are coming and the amount of harm that climate change is doing to our world is something that we all have a responsibility to act upon. So we knew that we had to do it, did we know how exactly we were going to get there? Absolutely not. But we decided, Okay, let's just make that jump. And we will then find out the way to do it. And, and so we've made that commitment to be net-zero, but we don't have all the answers to get there. I think at the same time, there's probably about, you know, something around being humble and accepting your small role in the world. And rather than trying to sort of over claim and, you know, being willing to, therefore to reach out to others for support and advice. And there's a lot of good research and information and willing, I think for people to help companies and to help individuals take this step towards greater sustainability.

Will Richardson 24:12
I'm, I'm really glad that you met. What I wanted to kind of finish on was the science-based targets. And I'm really glad that you brought it up again, because to anyone listening, I don't. The science-based targets initiative is such an important initiative. It's and that's not to say that none of the other stuff that you've talked about is important. But I think this is going towards a global common goal. And it is making sure that all your emissions are in line with that 1.5-degree increase and I think it is incredibly scary for particularly organisations like you who have quite large scope three emissions, and you will not know how you're going to be reducing those emissions. But what is amazing is that you have put your head above the pulpit, and, you know, head up and said, Look, we're going to be getting our science-based targets, and we're going to be achieving them. And this is an openly telling everyone what it is that you're going to be doing. And then working towards it, I think is so important. And it's such a, it's such a great step. And it's brilliant that you've had those verified. It's I you can see, I'm, I'm a firm advocate of science best targets. I think we all agree, as well.

Rochelle Turner 25:42
I think I think it's been really helpful that the science-based targets initiative has, an iteration for SMEs for small, medium-sized enterprises. Because, you know, this stuff is difficult. And there are people in large companies that have, you know, scientists with PhDs who are on their staff who are calculating the numbers for them. And, you know, most small businesses just do not have the ability or the resources or the capacity to do that, or to hire someone with that kind of level of expertise. And so, you know, they have recognised this, that SBTI initiative has recognised this, and, you know, we have gone along with that the SME version. And it's been really helpful, because it does mean, it's much more inclusive, we are on that journey now. And, you know, we do have that help and support to try and help get to where we say that we're going to be, you know, there's a lot of measurement, we have to prove it, you know, we have to make these cuts, and we will make these cuts, but it sort of helps them and almost holds our hand along the way now because then, because we've gone with the SME version.

Will Richardson 26:57
Brilliant. Well, thank you so much for today. Is there a way that we can connect with you and learn more, we'll obviously be putting all of the links and everything on the website when we publish this.

Rochelle Turner 27:09
Yep. So we're at MaCher.com. And Matt shares, it's a funny name. It was started by a man called Martin and a woman called Cheryl. So, is in the Martin and she shares. And so it's Yeah, it's not a name that means free means much. But that's where he is. And that's where we are. So yeah, MaCher.com and please contact us are really happy and open to talk to anybody who's interested.

Will Richardson 27:42
Rochelle, thank you so much for being on today. Thank you.

Rochelle Turner 27:44
Thanks, Will.