Season 4, Episode 154 : Rachel Fowler

Will Richardson 00:04
Welcome to the Green Element podcast, where we meet business leaders and innovators transforming their operations to be more environmentally and socially sustainable, and in the process help you on your sustainability journey. I'm your host, Will Richardson. Our homes are made from 1000s of different materials, but do we really know where these materials come from, and what their environmental impact is? Today, we are joined by Rachel Fowler, a sustainable interior designer, who will be sharing her insights into the industry and offering sustainable interior design advice to homeowners. Welcome, Rachel.

Rachel Fowler 00:42
Thank you for having me.

Will Richardson 00:43
I'm really looking forward to listening to your insights, because we spend so much time indoors, and what we choose to furnish our homes with can negatively affect our health, and the health of the environment. I'd really like to ask you how you got involved in sustainable interior design, especially since you started your career as a children's Intensive Care Nurse?

Rachel Fowler 01:04
Yes, everybody kind of looks at me timidly or says, wow, that's quite a career change. And I'm like, Yeah. Well, I love nursing intensive care nurse and I went all over the world of it. But I've always liked the arts and design and wanted to change careers and my younger 40s. And so I just went back to university and did three years and I got an honours degree. And then I finished 2019, and I worked for a design house in here in Hamburg. And my dissertation for my degree was in sustainability and luxury in the design of luxury hotels, which I did a global survey and sent out to lots of companies. And that was quite surprising on my results. And this kind of like fed the seed of like, where are we going? You know, even it's not just a homes and you can go on holiday and stay in a five star hotel, but what you actually staying in, what is surrounding you? Are you paying for something that's really luxurious, but is it actually detrimental to your health, when you peel back and see what actually is in the products that they use them to create these beautiful spaces. And I just found working for design house, I just got frustrated and in the fact that the products that we have using the companies were using, and you look back to where these products come from, like from Vietnam, and you know, subconsciously that, you know, I've been to Vietnam, are these people treated fairly? Or they paid fairly? What products are they using to make these, like beautiful items of furniture, and I just thought I need to do more. So last year, I set up my own company. And I just thought, Okay, I've got to do something about this. I looked at as you do market research, there are people out there. But I've just I've always got to think that if I'm determined to do something, I'll always do it. And that's just my philosophy in life. And started my company obviously went into lockdown. But that didn't deter me. I had a client in South coast from UK that I started working with. And I just thought that lack of knowledge from the client, and then you get the contractors come in, and you're just like - No, you can't use this product. What are you doing? Why are people just going back? Why are they stuck in their ways? And I think also from a nursing perspective, when you've looked after people that are really sick because of consequences, something you think, why are we still using products that are not good for human health and not good for the planet? So I decided that I'd write my book. And that led me even to more of a wow, look at the products that are out there. You know, we don't have to keep designing with materials that we've been designing for the last 20, 30, or 40 years. People are, companies are actually changing and making products which are, you know, have a positive life cycle, which is a thing that I like to talk about a lot when people speak to me. And it's not just a tool that us in the design tray can use it's it's getting the word out there and saying to people use a lifecycle tool, when you're buying anything in design or even your home for like products for cleaning, look at the lifecycle. You know, what's it made? What's the materials, where do they come from? How is it manufactured? What's the waste from manufacturing? Is it fair trade, transportation of materials? Can you buy it locally? I know a lot of stuff you can't buy in some countries locally, and end of life, you know, can it be reused? Is it biodegradable? And so yeah, so I just thought, right, I'm going to do this because I have a responsibility. I'm not nursing but I still have responsibility to the health and welfare of people that you're designing for. And yeah, so that's where it kind of escalated from and that's my ambition to basically, I don't know, perhaps it might seem a bit big headed, but I think I can take the design industry by storm and, you know, linking in with so many architects at the moment, and obviously we've got cop 26 coming up in November. But I think it's starting at the bottom. And just getting everybody aware, and it's in homes and offices, and hotels doesn't matter what where you are what you're decorating or designing, you know, we'll have responsibility to look after ourselves and that environment.

Will Richardson 05:29
Yeah. I think it's really important. I think it's really hard what you are trying to do, because, I mean, we've just recently torn up our house, we bought a house that hadn't been touched since the very early 60s, 62 I think. So I went into it, considering what I do for a living with a , yes!, we're going to be the most environmentally friendly house possible. I want to have hemp insulation, I want to have this type of paint, I want to have this. And we ended up with triple glazing windows, we ended up with a lot of insulation, I did what I could. But the bit that I struggled with massively was the architect didn't have a clue. He said he was more environmental when we started talking to him. But actually, when it came down to it, he didn't know about different insulations that we could be using. The builder didn't have a clue about the insulations. And that's no disrespect to a particular builder, because why would he? He was brilliant and very, very good. But it's that knowledge, isn't it. And so we were then on a timeframe of we had, we were actually expecting our second baby. So therefore we had to get things done at a certain time. Otherwise, we weren't going to get into the house before we had the baby. So therefore, it was a ticking clock. We also had a budget as well, which I, you know, if I was told right at the beginning, this is the budget, this is what hemp will cost or whatever paint you use, we would have put the budget together with everything in place rather than do everything at the last minute, and hope and actually never end up doing as much as you want to do. And it came down to knowledge. I didn't have the time to research, research, research, and then educate the people around me, and in the timeframe. So we need to be educating the people that are advising us don't we?

Rachel Fowler 07:29
You've hit on two big keys. I had a conversation with architects in the UK, down towards I think it was Eastbourne. And I was basically asking them, what do they think are the stumbling blocks for sustainability? And they just said some people don't want to be the first ones to have it, the cost. But I think, yes, some of the products are expensive. But if you look at the longevity of it. And also, I think when you set up on a design project, rather than think, oh, yeah, let's do this. Let's do this. It's sitting down and doing a cost specification sheet. Okay, this is what we want to achieve. Let's cost it out. And then once you've costed it out, and you think, okay, what products do I really need to create what I want to create? I mean, because when it comes to furniture, people always say, well, how can we? Sustainability is expensive, how can we make it least expensive? Like, well, what are the essential things that you need to do to build the house or to create the space and like furniture is great, but you can always use secondhand furniture, until you can afford to then go and buy what you want to put in that space. It's sustainable. Yeah, I just think when it comes to creating the outs of the property itself, and the wall coverings and the floor coverings, what usually is in the bathrooms, what you put in the kitchen. I mean, those are the expensive things. And then the other bits like the furniture if you wanna put rugs and and that you can think that last and also, a lot of people think like, oh, yeah, lighting, I do that at the last minute, you're just like, no, because you can actually create a sustainable house by doing a correct lighting design initially, when you're developing the concept for your design. And use as much natural light in your property as, as possible. And there are lots of other different ways that you can bring natural light in. So you'd have to reduce the amount of energy that you're consuming. I mean, if you go into some properties, some contractors put like you look at a ceiling and it's just like, wow, how many LED lights have you got in a ceiling here - that's crazy. Just thinking this is crazy. And yeah, it's hard when it comes to contractors. I don't want to upset anybody on your podcast who listens to it, but there's always people's bottom line and budgets and my experience uis like oh yeah you can do your plans, you can recommend it and then the contractors will go to the client and say - I can get this cheaper. And it's just trying to break that concept of like that. Come on, you're not promoting a healthy environment for your client. And actually, like I was saying to you previously, before we start the podcast, I've just finished the healthy materials course, by the New School University in New York. And in the States now, they're worried that if they don't design in such a way that it's healthy, they can get sued. And you think, well, it's gonna come out to the rest of the world, won't it? Because you just think why are you using, I don't know, sealants around the windows or whatever, that are full of chemicals. There are other stuff out there. As well as hemp insulation, you've got mycelium, which is mushroom insulation, there are so many amazing products out there. And I know, you know, I said I was a nurse before I went into design, I as a nurse, there's no way that I could afford a designer. So I thought for God's sake, how can we get this information out there? So that everybody's got access. It's not just those that have got the money that can afford an architect afford a designer, which is why I wrote the book. And specifically in that book, I thought I'm going to put products in there. Yes, I'm taking a gamble here because there's greenwashing, everyone knows about it. But the companies that I've worked with that are included in it, they're really good. They did all my research, there's no greenwashing it's as much as you can hope for. But it is really hard. And it is education. I belong to the Architects Climate Action Network group, and this comes up quite frequently about contractors. And that there are some architects out there. But it's just, it's like anything everybody wants to do design project they want to see the results, they want to do it now. I think it's about taking a step back and thinking, how can I do this sustainably that's actually going to promote mine and my family's health and well being? Or how can I create a hotel or an office that's actually going to make my employers feel good, feel happy? Because it's not just the health it's the mental effects that a property, any property could have on people or employees. So if you designed sustainably and healthily, you're hopefully going to reduce the stress on your people and family. So at the end of the day, are looking after their physical and mental well being. Yeah, it is tough. But you know what? It's just like, I don't know, you'd have to be like a teenage mutant ninja turtle, you just have to battle your way through it, and think I can do this, and I can help people. So yeah, we can do it. I think that's the attitude. We can do it. It's just, you've just got to break down the barriers.

Will Richardson 12:45
Yeah. So, why is sustainability important to embed into interior design?

Rachel Fowler 12:52
Oh my goodness me. If you if you look at some of the materials that are out there, that have been used for 20-30 years. I mean, I used it in a book I've done my last chapters about infant nurseries. Because a lot of people when they have it, when you're expecting a baby, it's like, I've got to get this, we've got to do this. We've got to put a carpet on the floor. We have to do this. And then you're like, let's take a step back. Because traditionally, carpets, they were stuck together these glues which contain formaldehyde. There's just so much stuff in products that needs to come out. It's just shocking. You know, babies spend infants spend the first couple years were crawling around on the floor. So it's just evaluating what is in the product on the floor. It's in the carpet, there are sustainable carpets out there. There's even sustainable underlays now that you can get out there and but do you need to put a carpet down? Can you put a nice rug down? Also furniture, what's furniture covered in I mean, traditionally lacquers and stuff would contain all kinds of chemicals. And but now this is changing. There's a great company, I think they're called Oro, they do lacquers finishes, floorings finishes, and there's they're all natural materials, there's no hidden chemicals. And it's not just a fact that your inhalation I mean if you touch a product that's got some kind of chemical or something in it, you can touch it then if you lick your hand if you know if you're eating a piece of fruit or something, you're ingesting it. So I mean also another example is bedding and this can be quite a big topic. There are a few companies out there though that actually provide some bedding that don't contain chemicals in their manufacturing process. But if you think in mattresses too, but if you think if you're a person that sweats a lot at night in your mattress is covered in fire retardant or your bedding is a non ironable stuff which contains chemicals and that's why you don't have to iron it. When you sweat, you're absorbing the chemicals that have been used in the products, it's like if you're sitting in a chair and you're quite a sweaty person, it's a hot day, you know, you're absorbing the chemicals, it's kind of, it's quite scary what chemicals have been used. But in another matter of fact, there is more and more information becoming available with, obviously social media is such a big thing now, I totally recommend people to go and if you're on Instagram, to the healthy materials lab, because they post stuff out there that, you know, is really informative. I mean, I do myself, I post five times a day, a week, sorry to try and help people make those choices, like really think about what's in the product. This is why I look at the lifecycle. And some products like paint. If a quantity is under a certain amount, they don't have to declare it, which is crazy, stupid. So hopefully, and I know if you speak to a lot of designers, they say that it needs the design industry for buildings and construction in homes, offices, commercial properties, it needs to be more regulated so that people can't be just like, oh, we'll make this, and we use these chemicals, so that they can't greenwash as well.

Will Richardson 16:15
Such an exhaustive subject, isn't it? And I think that's why it's possibly quite hard to understand it all, isn't it? Because it is so big?

Rachel Fowler 16:28
Yeah, if people google Lifecycle Cradle to Cradle, and there's so much information out there, but that is a key tool. Because it gives you the incentive to go to the manufacturer to say, okay, what's in the product, then? What are you actually putting in? I mean, there's a company in Italy, they make tiles just purely from clay and rainwater, which is amazing. There's no chemicals in there. There's another company in in California, who are carbon zero for making their tiles. It's all made from recycled materials. So I think the information is out there. But it's really hard because you've got these big corporations that have been manufacturing products for so long, that have swamped the industry. And you know, and for now sustainable is coming out, obviously there is greenwashing. But there are these companies are now the companies that are doing it sustainably are coming up behind them, because magazines, and if you see I like in like the world of interiors, you can see that they're changing the way that they're putting their style in their magazines, elle decoration, they have a bit of sustainability, and it's becoming more and more evident. So the education will be there. But when you've got the big corporations, massive manufacturers, and you've also got the big contracting companies, they're the ones that we really have, that have to change their way for it to change.

Will Richardson 17:59
We've had Brendan Rowan on, one of the original Cradle to Cradle consultants. He's written a few books on the subject, it is a really interesting podcast, I should point you in that direction. Circular Economy products will be integral to a sustainable design. What products have you created or worked with that are surprisingly circular?

Rachel Fowler 18:22
Circular design, that's a good one. Because that for me, that just goes back to Cradle to Cradle, just what we've been talking about when you can reuse. And there's a really good product that for me, there's a wallpaper company, they're based in Italy. And they basically have created a wallpaper that is all made from plant based. It goes on the wall with a special wallpaper paste which is plant based. And when it comes off, it's biodegradable. So for a sense that you're taking it out of the ground and putting it on the wall and you can put it back into the ground. For me that's a circular economy in the sense that it's not detrimental, we've taken it out, put it on and then we'd like the linear approach really chucking it away. And I think furniture another is, you know when you get wooden kitchens that are completely wood, the carcasses aren't made from like a prefab material. The whole kitchen is wood and I think this is becoming more evident. So basically, you can take it back down at the end of that kitchen's life, you can reuse it and recycle it. But when it comes to stuff like paint, obviously is quite a tough one. I always say don't chuck your paint away, you know, you might be able to use it somewhere else. But for a circular economy, it's just thinking. It's like I say it's the manufacturers it's really hard but for furniture, buy solid wooden furniture and just recycle it resell it you know, take it to a flea market. It's yeah, lighting is another one, you could go buy secondhand light and obviously get it super checked by somebody that's economically recycled. So from a circular economy point of view when it comes to interior design, it's like, well, you know, you can't manufacture it as basically can we reuse it? It's this like hotel designs, that a lot of the big hotel companies are, I can say when they own more than one hotel chain, like Fairmont. And there are a couple, and there'd be like five star luxurious down to 2 star 3 star. And one concept could be is that rather than okay, let's just get rid of furniture, you could recycle that through the different stars of the hotel chain. So you're continuously recycling the furniture, or you could donate that to a social housing people so that you can do a circular economy. It all depends. Unfortunately, what the product that you're buying is covered in and what how it can be finished in end of life. And you look at fabrics, obviously in the UK, some stuff has to be covered in fire retardant, which is really frustrating. That was brought in because of the US. And now, I don't think they use fire retardant on all their products, I think it is just in commercial properties. So it's really hard to buy fabric. You know, if you're in a commercial setting, especially in the UK, that hasn't got to be coated in something to protect for fire regulations. But if you buy in material, like natural material, like hemp, linen, cotton, which is got certified, it's got certified, you know that it's fair trade, there's no chemicals, there's no pesticides, or anything that's been used to grow it. I mean, this is great, this fabric can be reused. You can reuse it after you've used it for curtains, you can recycle it for something else. And at the end of the day, if it goes back in the ground, it's all natural products, it's not going to do any harm. Yeah, I hope that answered your question.

Will Richardson 22:05
Yeah, it does. Because you can also use, I'm seeing more and more. There's an Italian company, and I can't remember what it's called, we want to do our office up using them, they kind of connect their connectors to pieces of wood. So you can actually build furniture out of old wood. It's really clever. And I'm starting to see it more and more, where you've got these, the new bits are literally the connectors and then when you're redoing your office, you could actually take everything apart, and then build a load of new stuff. Using the same connectors. It's awesome.

Rachel Fowler 22:41
Yeah. If you take furniture apart rather than glue it, go back to using screws and stuff like that. Because if there is glue in it, unless you can really find a glue that's not going to come up because then that will affect the sustainability of your product. But if you screw it, even for shells, don't fix it. I mean, no more nails, not a good advert for nails, but I mean, that's just got chemicals in right. So let's just go back and when I did this, healthy materials course like let's just go back to how we used to build furniture and stuff using screws and stuff. I mean, it's so it's so hip now to have secondhand furniture, why do you need to keep buying brand new?

Will Richardson 23:26
Yeah. For our listeners at home just now what advice would you give them if they are redecorating their homes and trying to do so sustainably?

Rachel Fowler 23:34
Okay, the first thing I would say is don't rush to do it. You know, just take your time in the planning stage define what your concept is define what you want to use that space for who's going to be using that space and do a good space planning. So basically, just do a sketch out or draw out what you want in that space. Because come on how many of us thought, you know when I first got married me my husband bought our first house. Oh yeah, let's get this. Let's get this. And we had an old Victorian terraced cottage, we bought his rolltop tub. And then we went we got home and then the size wouldn't fit in the bathroom. Of course, that's my husband's fault because he didn't measure it right. So it's just like, really do that space planning and it might sound really boring, but don't put so much stuff in your space. Just keep it like not minimal because not everybody likes minimal but think about will it flow. If you put too much in a space, you're not going to need it you're gonna end up selling it or if you can't sell it, it's just going to go into the tip which will be detrimental and also if your space flows you've got good space plan and it promote your mental and physical well being and this is not even in your home in your office environment too. The next thing is work out your style, the design style that you want and this could be used in residential or it could be used for your business. What is your branding for your business? How do you want people to see you when you walk into your office or your reception area? And then okay, I want to do sustainably, we call it a cost specifications sheet in the design industry, but then go around and research your materials. Write down what you need, and research materials - where can I buy this? How can I buy it sustainably? Don't believe what's on the can on a lot of products. So much greenwashing out there. If the company is marketed for we're totally organic, I will be asking myself questions. Because if you're going to buy sustainable materials, make sure it's third party certified like we discussed earlier, Cradle to Cradle. There's other in my book at the back of the glossary of all third party certifications that you can look for. And once you've allocated okay, I know this is how much materials are gonna cost me this is what I want to create it sustainably. You might think, oh my budget's not going to cover this. So you can kind of like well, what do I certainly need to create the space? I don't know, let's go to the secondhand shop and buy a secondhand sofa or a table or something to do and save to get the furniture or whatever else you want to put in there. Another thing I would suggest is Biophilia is exploding in the design world, it has been for the last 12 months. You know, let's go take it back to nature include things like pot plant, think of the colours that you're including your home, are they how do they affect you, colour affects everybody totally differently. I've got a friend that I used to work with, a nurse, if you said to her, let's paint a space yellow, she'd be like no, that's that colour is a psychotic colour for me, I can't, I don't like it. So they'll just go the design trends. You know, hopefully the design in this interior design industry will start following that as the fashion industry where we won't have all these these trends every year. Because that's what's affecting the planet. So really think of the colour, connect back to nature. What makes a space calming for you, utilise as much natural daylight in your space as possible. Don't leave your lights, when you're doing your space planning, do lighting design at the same time? What lights do you want in there? You know, what mood do you want the space? And obviously lighting, there are companies out there now that are manufacturing sustainable lighting, and they're good products or if you buy secondhand lights, or if you're in chandeliers or that's your kind of thing, buy a chandelier secondhand but obviously make sure that it's checked by an electrician and t's safe to hang. Yeah, just really think of what you can do. And if you can also afford things there are service now we can rent furniture. So you could rent furniture an item of furniture for six months. I'm not sure the cost of it. But whilst you're saving to get the rest of it so, but really think down to the bricks and mortar when you're initially what if I want to do this sustainably? How can I do this? So I'm promoting the health and well being of my family, my friends, my work colleagues, my employees, there is so much information out there. I mean, I don't mind people emailing me saying okay, I'm really stuck on this. How can I go for this? I don't mind people emailing me and asking me because, you know, I surround myself in it every day to be honest, what, seven days a week, just try and keep ahead of things. But really just yeah, really break down your design project. Really look at all the materials you want to use. Yes, it's boring because you just want to get the design done. But think about how healthy you want your spaces to be how you want to promote the well being of the planet. And I don't know perhaps it's because I was a nurse but it's shocking what's in several materials. There are some paint companies out there at the moment that are really misleading, that are advertising that they are plant based and sustainable and they're not. It's just, it is yeah, and once you've done this, once you've done your research, the planning the space planning your product, what you want to use, it will make your design flow and that will make the project run so easily and if you're going to get a contractor involved, say to the contractor this is the materials I want to use, don't go put this in there. You know,this is what I want. And I do think that there are going to be more and more companies shooting up that are out there. I mean if you are starting a design project, a good magazine is Anki mag in the UK. They are really good magazine. All the products they put in there the kitchen designs, everything is sustainable.

Will Richardson 29:47
I mean listening to you, it's still a lot of the onus is on the person doing the house, isn't it? Where as if you were doing it in a less sustainable way the onus is on the contractor And, and so therefore, most people don't have time in their day. But I think one thing I've got from you from listening to you is, if you're going to do any research at all, research into the certifications that are recommended, and then you don't need to worry about what's on the tin of paints, because if it's not certified, you know not to buy it.

Rachel Fowler 30:24
Yeah, that's yes. But also on that effect is that to get these certifications, they're not cheap, Cradle to Cradle certification, it cost companies a lot of money. So they might not be able to, I think a key thing is just look at your life cycle, just really break down, try to find out what is in a product. It's just that life cycle tool. I don't know if it was if I compare it back to my job, it would be like my basic life support it would be the lifecycle tool, because the third party certification is great and look for products that but I do know, there are some companies, especially a lot of new companies that are starting out that third party certification is I mean, I've looked at sustainable wallpaper, it is really expensive. I can't afford that certification for a couple of years until the money starts to come in on on the wallpaper. Yeah, I mean, they're the healthy materials. I've described it well. Okay. So when you're shopping in the supermarket for some food, you don't want to chemicals in a piece of meat or I don't know vegetables that are sprayed of chemicals. So why would you want to choose a kitchen counter worktop that's been manufactured using chemicals that when you put stuff on it, you're going to ingest those chemicals.

Will Richardson 31:46
You've just brought up your sustainable wallpaper. So, how is sustainable wallpaper different to your standard?

Rachel Fowler 31:54
I'll have to speak very carefully here, I could get myself in trouble. Because this has been a hard thing. I mean, I'm working with surface print, their in Lincolnshire, I might be wrong. My geography is not very good, brain's not very good at remembering people's addresses. But they use a renewable energy system for manufacturing their wallpaper and the wallpaper that I'm selecting, it's not like the company in Italy. It's a different product. Initially, when I went to them, I said look, my USP is sustainability, I can't have anything with plastic in because this totally goes against what I stand for. And also, it's not promoting the well being of clients. And they said, well, I'll send samples let me know what you think, they sent me out samples I had a look and like Oh, I like this one. And then I arranged a zoom call because we're in lockdown. And he said oh all the non woven wallpapers have got plastic in, not a large amount but it contains plastic. And then like I can't use that that just that goes against what I stand for. So I said sort of what are my options he said currently, there's not really much, he uses the nonwoven because it's easy to put up. You just paste the wall, you stick it on and you can wipe it, it's got plastic in that's why. So it's like oh, well what can I do? You know, and he's like, Well, the option is to go back to traditional wallpaper, which is just paper. So I'm like, okay, if I have to do this, you know, put my feelers out do a bit of research on social media. And then they're working with a German company and they're just working on a nonwoven wallpaper that's plant based and hopefully sustainable and there is a last couple of things that I'm just checking out with them at the moment that there's no chemicals and stuff and hopefully that will work. But if you look at a lot of the wallpaper like vinyl wallpaper - vinyl makes my toes curl anyway because vinyl is just chemicals. You know so a lot of bathroom wallpaper is vinyl. And you just like well, you're great you're in a nice relaxing shower or bathroom with find a wallpaper but you're actually breathing in chemicals. It's not a place to retreat to which is going to be healthy. Non woven wallpaper I'm not sure about all but this the company I'm working with said some nonwoven wallpapers got plastic in and I'm like, okay, that's off gassing. So it's like, again, I keep saying you just got to look what's in the product. It's like, like you're going to buy I don't know, boxes, cereals and you don't need children to be bouncing off the wall because I've got so much sugar and stuff in see look at the cereal box to make sure there's no e numbers and sugar in it's kind of like having to do that when you're looking at products. Here's a question for you. Should you be using wallpaper full stop? Is paint better than wallpaper? Well, wallpaper has been around for like, well, I can tell you more if it's been around because I actually did a blog article. I think it's Chinese, they invented it originally and it was rice paper, which was, would have been just totally biodegradable. I think wallpaper is a good thing, some people say why design a wallpaper. Do we need it? I said, if it's made sustainably, and it's biodegradable at the end of the life, what harm are you doing and the paper is FSC sourced, then there's no damage on the environment. Obviously, if you're buying wallpaper like vinyl, that's got chemicals, once you take it off, obviously, when you steam wallpaper off it's vinyl, it's not going to be good for the environment. And that's just gonna go underground. It's not biodegradable, and it will pollute. Paints, well, I mean, once you put paint on the wall, you can't really do anything with it, it's there forever. And then if you want to change it, or just paint over it, if it's a plant based paint, obviously, it's better for the environment. I think it's up to individual choice. Personally, I think wallpaper is a good thing. You know, as long as the materials are sustainably sourced, and at the end of the life, it's biodegradable, it can go in the ground, and it's not going to cause any problem with a, you know, with the environment.

Will Richardson 36:10
So, you've written a book, which is going to be published later this year, could you tell us a bit about your book and what's in it and why we should buy it?

Rachel Fowler 36:20
Goodness me, this is on a whim. I just I thought I'm gonna write this book. Because you know what, like I said earlier, I was a nurse, I couldn't afford an architect, interior designer, but everybody has the right to live in healthy, humane, sustainable spaces, you know? And so I just thought, Okay, I'll write this book. How do I write a book? I just Googled it. How do you write a book? So I use Google, I wrote some notes. Okay, I'll write this book. And I have dyslexia. So my husband's like, are you sure you want to do this? And I'm like, yeah, it's just like doing a dissertation, isn't it for your degree? Well, how hard can it be kind of thing. So I wrote my book, I broke it into chapters, got it done, wrote it in nine months. And I'm glad I did it. Because it was such a great journey, in the sense that working finding companies like a paint company in Iceland, that are creating paint from rhubarb, it was just absolutely fascinating to research products. And, and, you know, prove, like you said to some architects who don't know much about sustainability and well, yeah, there's just so much stuff out here, guys, lets just read it and, and it was really great to create, it's in seven chapters, and it covers most the design elements wall coverings, floor coverings. And, and each section, for instance, in the wall coverings there's cork wall covering and stuff. And I've actually researched companies in there. And there's images of these companies products, because I know a lot of people, they can say, oh, yeah, this is a company, but what their products look like, you know, how do I know that's going to suit what I need? That was great. That was a really grateful, and I'm glad I did it. But then when they got to the publisher, she's like, we need copyright for all these, and the books gonna be sold globally. So we have to have globally copyright and I'm like, Oh, man. So I think even though I formed a really good relationship with companies, I think they're like, please don't email us again, about copyright. And I'm just like, I have to do it. So yeah, it's a go to. I'm not joking. I'm like, Yes, that's fine. And it's and lots of sign lots of forms. NDAs and stuff that information. But the book, I sat and I thought if I was doing a research project had no design knowledge. I have, like you say, not many people have the time to sit down and do research, unless you're a person that likes to spend evenings on your laptop looking at stuff. So I thought how can I make this easy for people so it could roll through the things that they're going to need? So I did and yeah, it works. The publisher is a bit Oh, I don't know. I said, Well, let there's a PDF read it, and she's like, oh, this is really good. It's so easy to follow. And like I said, the last chapter is on infant and children's rooms because contacting people and I've written blog articles for like vegan design and they are saying we can't find any information on sustainable and vegan friendly materials for infant nursery. So, okay, I'll include that it's, you know, it's vital that we promote health and well being of our families and children. So yeah, it was very nerve wracking. I've never written a book, but I've totally enjoyed it and built some amazing contacts with companies. And in the book, even in the chapters, I've included companies. At the back of the book, there's a complete Glossary of companies whose products are sustainable. They're certified like got certified everything, and people say oh it's easy to write a book, but when it comes to gaining the trust and get an obviously working together with companies that were the biggest thing I think, obviously they don't know me that oh, she's going to use our images. She's going to do this but it didn't. And when you're saying that you're doing your office at the moment, if you need to soundproof it. There's Mogo in Italy. They are making wall panels and ceilings and flooring made from mushroom mycelium, which absorbs all the unwanted noise. So it decreases the level of noise. Yeah, oh my goodness, well, there are so many amazing products out there that you don't have to do the old stuff. And everyone else I sent my book too, they're like, wow, I've never thought of cork, cork flooring and stuff. I'm like, yeah, there's alternatives. And, you know, I've kind of, even though it's one chapter for wall coverings, there's loads and loads of different wall coverings that included floor coverings. For lighting, I've even gone into lighting and saying, okay, you know, before I wrote my book, I was kind of guilty of picking up a light bulb, LED light bulb, like, what do letters and numbers mean? I just need it to look like that. Because that's got to go in that lamp fitting. I like explained in the book about what the numbers are. I don't know how I can describe it, like the colour, the vibrancy of the lighting, low lighting, and I've described that all in so people go, okay, now I understand it. I've also put in the book, how to light a space, when you're designing, this could be your workspace, this could be your home space, the lighting design because this is how we work in the design industry. And that's how we create that right atmosphere by putting the right lighting in setting that tone and a layered effect so it's not all at one level. And yeah, it's just, there's just so much information in there.

Will Richardson 41:52
I'm gonna read your book before we do our office.

Rachel Fowler 41:56
Oh, yeah, just looking now. I mean, the book is for it's for life and work. Because I just, I just thought, yeah, there are products out there. And it's so important to reuse what you've got. I emphasise that, especially in the furniture section.

Will Richardson 42:12
We actually have all of our furniture at home is all secondhand.

Rachel Fowler 42:16
And how much fun is that? I mean, I when I worked in, and this is a sidetrack and I do apologise, when I worked in Sydney, Australia, as a nurse in the kids ICU out there, and I lived with three fantastic girls, and our living room looked like something out the 1970s we had the ultimate really floral sofa. But it was so iconic. Anybody that came around and visited us mentioned it like wow, that actually looks really cool. And yeah, you know, there's just, there's just so much you can do to promote sustainable, healthy living and working spaces. It's just whether you're in a city or in a town or a village, the outside environment is actually probably more healthy than the inside environment, because of the materials that we've been used to. But yeah, but once you start talking to people, I mean, if people want more information, I write a blog post every month, I didn't last month because that's a bit busy. The publisher was keeping me busy with the book. And on there, I put on there products and materials that you can use to create beautiful work in and live in places. This month I've just done it, It's called Let's get plastered part one. And it's about Japanese line wall coverings, which have been around for years. And it's sustainable, biodegradable, and it's really good reflected lights. So for your office, if you want to put up wallpaper, not really sure about paint, what else can I use? These there's products out there that you can use, I think it's totally amazing.

Will Richardson 43:51
Brilliant. And lastly, what lasting impacts or rather, what legacy would you like to leave in your industry?

Rachel Fowler 44:00
I'd like to be like, I can't say what I'd like to say because that sounds a bit rude. I would like to be like Jackie Chan. I just like to really put it out there really given just like, I don't know, Batman, when he used to go wham bam, just have that kind of effect in the design industry. Like, come on, guys, let's just do this. We can do this. I mean, I spoke to an architect the other week and she was kind of like, oh, you know, I don't think much gonna change after this. And I said, Well, no, because it's up to us to make that change the more of us that make that change. You know? Yeah, let's just put the information out there. Let's do it. It's just I'm not one for sitting back and saying, That's too hard. I'm not going to do that. I'm like, no don't be so ridiculous, you know, let's just get on. Let's do it. We can do it.

Will Richardson 44:53
Great. Brilliant. Well, thank you so much for joining us today.

Rachel Fowler 44:57
Thank you for having me.

Will Richardson 44:58
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