Season 4, Episode 133 : Patrick Richards

Will Richardson 00:02
Patrick, welcome to the Green Element Podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today. We know you through the wonderful work you do at Terraverde. And I should caveat with the fact that we do work with you through Compare Your Footprints. But could you tell us a bit about your business and what your purpose is and who you work with?

Patrick Richards 00:23
Okay, great, Will. Well, firstly, thank you very much for inviting me on, Will. It's great to be here. So our mission is to help tourism businesses onto the sustainability ladder. Tourism is one of the largest industries globally, with one in 10 people employed, or at least until the beginning of 2021, 1 in 10 people employed responsibly for 1 in 6 new roles, employment roles. So a huge industry, but we recognise that also is under-penetrated as far as sustainability is concerned. So, for example, the UN WTO says that only 1 in 10 hotels, independent hotels in Europe have any kind of sustainable footprint. So we know that something has to be done. And we know that 70% of consumers want to have a sustainable travel choice. 93% of the world's largest companies measure their own footprint and are increasingly expecting their supply chain to do the same, which obviously impacts on all sorts of areas of tourism. But we felt that there was really a lack of practical assistance that could help people onto that ladder. So you know, where there's a will, there is a way, and we felt that we should, you know, our role would be to give people business-friendly, practical advice on getting onto that ladder and moving up the ladder.

Will Richardson 02:04
Brilliant, brilliant. And what, obviously you do the footprinting but you do so much more, you know, it would be great to explore what it is that you're doing and trying to achieve. And then if we could have a look at you know what your background is and how you've ended up where you are today.

Patrick Richards 02:26
I started in the tourism business on April Fool's Day, 1985. So, we started with a business called GTA, which at that stage was a 25 million pound turnover business. That not as one of the owners but as one of the executive committee that sat just below those three owners. We built that business from that 25 million up to being sold in 2005 for $1.1 billion dollars, to an American organisation called Cendant. And, you know, that 20 years was a journey of discovery. As I travelled the world and met all sorts of cultures, and realised the power of travel to win hearts and minds was a wonderful thing. And then after that, I did various other corporate roles, up until about 2019, we're really, I became increasingly interested actually, through the work I do with a trade association called the European Tourism Association, where I sit on the board of directors and we realised that sustainability was absolutely core to the future health of the travel industry. And that was prior to COVID. So became increasingly interested and also kind of became increasingly interested that what I wanted to do in a kind of purpose-driven manner, would not be easily deployed within a corporate organisation and felt that a more entrepreneurial environment. My ripe old age was that was the right thing to do were to do well, so you know, really, as far as I'm concerned, yeah, 35 years in tourism, and I come at sustainability from that angle. And, you know, I think we, you know, we have a lifetime of contacts at a fairly senior level. But we also, more importantly, speak the language of tourism, and every different economic sector has its own jargon and its own language. But I think where we really understand what floats people's boats, as far as, you know, how do you interpret sustainable language and make it applicable within a tourism environment? And of course, we use people like, you know, people like ETOA, who are thought leaders in the space, a great rallying posts for rolling out that communication and that best practice, and especially when it reaches an SME level, because, you know, let's face it 70% of the tourist industry is still in the hands of SMEs. And that's over 90% of the companies. So even though you have some very large travel companies, there's a huge long tail of SMEs out there. And if the sustainable environmental question is going to be addressed properly, those guys need to be engaged. And the more we look around, the more we see that it seems to be large public and private sector companies that are currently engaged and currently reporting. And, you know, we feel a key part of our mission, both as Terraverde and as working with folks like ETOA, is to be able to roll that out and effectively interpret it for that SME audience that's going to be so important in the future of sustainable development.

Will Richardson 06:02
And have you seen a change since you started with sustainability? And how it's, you know, what people are talking about?

Patrick Richards 06:18
Absolutely, it's from being peripheral, I would say it's now very central. Now, you know, you have to put that in the context of an industry that's fighting for survival, and feels that it's on the operating table of life. My argument is that, if you're on the operating table, it's actually probably the best time to reset the heart into a new rhythm that can be durable into the future. So, you know, we're very much of the view that we should build back better to coin a phrase that's often used. But nevertheless, you can just see initiatives coming from a number of different angles. And the tourism business, as you know, covers a whole range of different sub-sectors, and different initiatives are being a being explored in all of those different sub-sectors, I would say.

Will Richardson 07:30
Okay, brilliant. And so what would you say your business superpower was?

Patrick Richards 07:37
So, it's those 35 years of connections within the industry, and our ability to really relate and convey to the day to day problems of how a tourism business works, and how people are to make it profitable, especially in an age, an age like now, when, you know, so many folks are struggling to, to make the next salary round?

Will Richardson 08:06
And, could you go into more detail about how, you know, what is it the Terraverde does in order to help these organisations become more sustainable?

Patrick Richards 08:18
So, first of all, I think we're pretty kindred spirits on this front. For us, it starts with measuring. And unless you can quantify, for me, it's like walking into your bank manager, without a balance sheet. Or without a set of accounts, or even going to the doctor and not, you know, getting your weight measured, this is an absolutely foundational thing to looking to understanding your business, understanding its footprint. So we start off with the measuring, we see how that then impacts on, you know, what's nature? What's the DNA of the business? What are its aims? And how can we help it, you know, assess that footprint, set targets, set milestones to reduce? And then at the end of that, okay, you're going to have a target for 2025 or 2030, which I think is about the longest time horizon that anybody you know, any of us can look at meaningfully, and then look at see, well, okay, what can I reduce? How can I improve my systems and my processes? And, and then at the end of that process, there's got to be some offsetting, too, especially if flights are involved, because that's something that really is impossible to reduce in the tourism business at the moment.

Will Richardson 09:47
Are you finding that people are reciprocal? You know, not reciprocal, responding well, to what you're suggesting.

Patrick Richards 09:58
Incredibly well. And everybody, people love what we're doing. I think our challenge with it really well is to make sure that people act. It's very easy to say, Yes, we love what you're doing over, let us first you know, get back to trading, which, of course, we understand, you know, if you're if you are struggling to meet the next salary run. That's a concern. But as we say, you know, we think that this should be added into the build back process where you can, where you can effectively re-engineer your business, that not only to be sustainable and durable financially but to be sustainable and durable, durable, ethically. And we know that you know, a number of surveys have shown that consumers are increasingly questioning company's ethics. There was a great survey from an agency, I know if you saw it called Futura the other day, saying that 86% of corporate leaders thought their business was sufficiently sustainable, yet only 41% of consumers felt they had enough information. So, there's clearly a deficit between what a lot of folks in leadership positions think and what their consumers think. And I think that for anybody is clearly a risk.

Will Richardson 11:41
Yeah, no, absolutely. Absolutely. And I think the consumers are finally leading the way as well. So I think, you know, understanding that 41% is going to be incredibly useful for our business leaders of tomorrow. Because it is now consumers and our culture in the UK and around the world, I think, that is driving that systemic change that we are. We have been wanting for a long time. And we're starting to see, finally, which is great. But how do you engage your staff, suppliers, customers with your mission and purpose?

Patrick Richards 12:25
I think it's quite easy because firstly, we do have a purpose. And having been involved with businesses in the past, and certain businesses that have been incredibly purpose-driven and have really had a great strategy. But some maybe that really haven't had a why of their own. We have a very clear why tourism is one of the largest industries in the world as I pointed out. And, you know, I think it's pretty unprepared for what's coming down the track. So, you know, there was a survey from UCLA, which said that 92% of under 30-year-olds wanted to work for a company that had an environmental conscience. And actually, their productivity improved by 16% in working in such an environment. Well, you know, when you are purpose-driven, and when we do feel we're on this mission, to help green up the tourism business, that's quite an easy message to get across. And I think the other part of it really is just, you know, keep on keep on communicating and talking to people. And the more you talk to people, and the more you sort of understand what they're looking for, and try and convey, where you see the sustainability movement is going effectively, then you can reach common ground, and you kind of get that lightbulb moment where people really click and want to be involved, you know, with the whole thing.

Will Richardson 14:14
And so, when it comes to running an ethical and sustainable business, what would you say has been your biggest struggle so far? And can you tell us a bit about how you've overcome it?

Patrick Richards 14:28
The biggest struggle will be getting people to commit beyond the next three months, I would say within tourism. And you know, I do appreciate it. There is a very genuine concern about getting business moving again. You know, what's coming out in the newspapers in the last two days, is yet another roadblock that we've seen to the route of travel. But really getting people to say the climate emergency is hitting us. And it is hitting us now, this is not something that you really need can wait for another year or two years, it's a little bit telescopic is without being political about it Will, it's a little bit like our government, you know, going two weeks later into lockdown has an elongated effect. The other end as you come out in terms of the amount of time you have to spend in lockdown. So we're kind of arguing that, the sooner that it goes into this, the sooner you can be prepared, the more you'll be prepared to meet customer needs, the more you'll be prepared to meet your investment needs, and the more you'll be prepared to meet, you know, the needs of regulations that comes down the track. So, you know, I think that's one thing is getting people to really take up the gauntlet sooner rather than later. I think also there's a couple of other areas, too. One is a slightly knee-jerk reaction to move to carbon offsetting very quickly.

Will Richardson 16:16
Yeah.

Patrick Richards 16:17
I think a lot of tourism companies are fairly asset-light. So they automatically think, well, okay, you know, my footprint is very small, I don't really need to worry about that. You know, I can move straight and do some carbon offsetting scheme, which will assuage my conscience. And then we're saying, well, actually, you're missing that foundational link, that's really important to, to how you want to go forward. So I think, telling people that they need to go through that measurement process, they need to reduce their own carbon footprint. And then at the end of it, there might be some carbon offsetting is a key message. And there was another point too, but it's got out of my head, Will.

Will Richardson 16:41
That's all right. I think I would imagine, it must be really, really useful because for you. I know everyone in your team and you've all got as much experience as you have to be able to go into conversations with not just this, and I'm not gonna do a service to many environmental professionals. But, I don't mean it badly, but kind of all you need to be more green, you need to be more sustainable, didn't have so much passion and drive. But having not worked in the industry, you kind of you'd end up with blank ears going, Yeah. But you don't actually understand what it is that we're trying to do. You kind of don't know what we are doing. But you have, you know, that experience that prior to you and walk into conversations, and then talk about sustainability and environmental travel, there you go. Actually, Patrick knows what he's talking about, because he has run businesses, he has been in the industry for decades. And so, therefore, actually understands the barriers that we have to overcome. And that must help massively in your conversations.

Patrick Richards 18:24
Nobody wants to be preached in my view. So absolutely. And I think firstly, you want people to feel that you're on their side, and the EU has their business interests at heart, and their business interests at heart. One, making sure you know, the commercial side of their business works so that they're around to be able to adopt a more environmental future, but to insane Will, in doing this, you're doing the right thing. And actually, we're kind of pushing an open door with that, Will, you know, most business leaders that I'm talking to, they're definitely you know, their heart is in the right place. Means just that there's a dearth of information and there's a dearth of practical help to say, okay, what's the first step? How do we do this without, you know, becoming a project that's going to engulf 30% of our time will cost us X amount of money, or even you know what, because our operating systems are going to be better. And because our risk management is going to be better, we might actually save money and improve our cost control at the same time. And these are all messages that resonate, and people think, yeah, I should do this sooner rather than later.

Will Richardson 19:46
Brilliant. Is that one piece of advice you could offer our listeners around, you know, helping them with their purpose. And you know, what's driving you clearly, you know your purpose, and you know what it is that you're driving forwards? What would you suggest to our listeners?

Patrick Richards 20:09
Can I give two pieces of advice?

Will Richardson 20:12
Of course, you can.

Patrick Richards 20:14
One, one would clearly be measure. And, you know, if in tourism, I think there are 400 different certification schemes. And frankly, that's confusing to people. Whereas all of the signs that are, you know, all of the trends show that a science-based approach where you actually measure your carbon footprint, is a great foundation for this, you know, it gives you awareness, once you have awareness, then you can start to control and you can start to manage, and you can start to set targets. So that measurement, I think, is incredibly important. I think the second thing is to feel it, believe in it, you know if you're doing something for the show, or doing it because you feel you have to or it's going to find out sooner or later. So really incorporating that into your passion and into your reason to get up every morning is quite important. And I see, I see those two things as pretty compatible, Will, you know, that, you know, obviously tourism has challenges that it needs to be able to face. And, you know, air and getting on planes is one of them. I used to be a person who was on aircraft a lot. I haven't been on an aircraft for the last year. Some of that I must say is for force major. But you know, I do believe in the ability of air of people getting on planes, as a great international leveller and bringer of peace and understanding. So from that angle, you know, air travel has been a great thing and shouldn't be, you know, shouldn't be discarded. But we do have to admit that it's, it's, it's an emitter. So you know, where we see our role with something like air is, well, we're not going to change Boeing, or we're not going to change Airbus. But we can tell people that if you happen to get on to an Airbus 350, that will be 20%, lower emissions, and an Airbus 330. And that, you know, they're both on the same route between New York and London. So, you know, I don't want people not to get on planes. I think if there's a viable alternative to aircraft, of course, you should look at it. But you know, stopping people get on planes will strangle the industry. And in the meantime, you know, it actually stops the investment of people working towards electrifying this or making hydrogen solutions that I'm absolutely confident will make air travel zero emissions in a matter of decades, how many decades is open to question. But in the meantime, then there's an awful lot that we can do on the ground surfaces. And that's where we spend the time and, you know, we know that there's three ground transport buildings, and foods are three key emitters. And you know, on the ground service level that translates to hotels, restaurants, and, and various ground transport, all of which are key to travels infrastructure, and all of those, there's really practical critical things you can do to help bring up that supply chain and make that part of tourism, which actually cumulatively is greater than the air. You know, much more environmentally sustainable.

Will Richardson 24:08
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And how, you've touched upon how, you know, the future of carbon footprinting and helping the travel industry become green. I mean, what is it that you guys are doing yourself? You've touched upon the fact that you've not gone on a flight for a year, but you knew carbon footprints in your own organisation? Are you looking at the environmental impact of your own industry? And companies as well?

Patrick Richards 24:37
Yeah, of course. Of course and of course. And yeah, that that's well, you know, if you look at these things, dawn on you over a matter of time, then you know, I go, I used to go on the weekly shop. And just get increasingly seconds as I unpacked the weekly shop by the amount of plastic I was, and packaging I was discarding. And you know, these things just, you know, it's like a death by 1000 cuts, Will, they increasingly just worry you over time. So absolutely we measure our carbon footprint. We're a young company, even though Chris and I, neither Chris and I are spring chickens, we are. We're a young company. So we don't have our first full year behind us. But we are measuring ongoing we all have renewable electric electricity. We all, you know, as I say, I don't pick up plastic anytime I possibly can, you know, I stopped buying plastic bottles, you know, all of those kinds of things are incorporated into our life. And, you know, I think you need to. I'm applying for solar panels on my roof now. So that's, that's another thing we're looking at, you know, all of those things. I think you have to the walk as well as taught the talk.

Will Richardson 26:11
I agree. I agree completely. Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more. And so, I mean, how can we learn more about you know, who you are and where you are? And yeah, how do we find out more about you?

Patrick Richards 26:26
Oh, well, great garden sites, which is www.terraverde-solutions.com. Send us an email at hello@terraverdesolutions.com. Follow us on LinkedIn, at Terraverde sustainability. reached out to me. I'm on LinkedIn, Patrick Richards 2669411, Will.

Will Richardson 26:55
We'll put the links up on the website if you didn't catch that very memorable LinkedIn profile. But yeah, I mean, thank you so much for being on. And I think what you guys are doing is brilliant. And, you know, with firm advocates of what you're doing, and yeah, I think the more people talking about and actioning, then I think it's the actioning that really, really important which you are absolutely trying to get people to do an organization's to do. So thank you for that.

Patrick Richards 27:30
Well, thanks to you. Thanks to you well, and on a broader level, thanks to you and your team, you know, we enjoy partnering on the Compare Your Footprint very much and that's greatly appreciated.

Will Richardson 27:41
Thank you. Thank you. Cheers, Patrick. Thanks.