Season 4, Episode 149 : Lora Nikolaeva

Will Richardson 00:04
Welcome to the Green Element Podcast, where we meet business leaders and innovators transforming their operations to be more environmentally and socially sustainable, and in the process help you on your sustainability journey. I'm your host Will Richardson. The negative impacts of fast fashion and the lack of inclusivity in the fashion industry have been increasingly highlighted in the media in recent years. Today, we are speaking with someone who is tackling those issues head-on with their business, Lora Nikolaeva, the founder of Lora Gene, the British contemporary women's wear brand that champions sustainability and inclusivity within the fashion industry. Thank you for joining us today, Lora.

Lora Nikolaeva 00:46
Thank you for having me, Will.

Will Richardson 00:48
I'd like to start by asking about your journey and you, and how did you go from being a fashion model to working at Procter and Gamble as a brand ambassador, to arriving here as a successful entrepreneur with your own B-Corp certified fashion brand?

Lora Nikolaeva 01:07
It's been a journey, isn't it? So I often, you know, when I tried to respond to this question, I often say that I really don't know if I have to be honest. I really don't. Because you know, my background, I don't have any sort of fashion background. I come from a doctor's family, my mom is a doctor, my father was an entrepreneur in buildings and constructors, I've never thought I'm going to do fashion. And therefore sometimes I think that the reason why this is happening to me is because someone, maybe someone like me is needed in this industry, you know, quite often my take on this answer is that I should probably do something in this industry because it wasn't really intentional. I finished advertising as my first degree, then I just actually finished a business degree as well. So I'm very much interested in the business side of things, and how we can really change the business model as a structure rather than, you know, the style approach or simply the trends or simply the fibres. Of course, I'm very interested in it, but it's purely aesthetically, as well. But I feel like there is something that I need to do in this industry, because very often as well, I struggle to fit into a line, you know, with all the problems and issues.

Will Richardson 02:43
Do you think that now knowing that your parents, one was a doctor and one worked in business, but you've kind of molded your parents together, haven't you? And you're now working, helping businesses? So you're kind of doing the doctoring and looking after people?

Lora Nikolaeva 03:04
Yeah, probably in a way. I really wanted to be a plastic surgeon. Right? You know, yeah. And I was born tall and slim. So this kind of naturally happened. I actually was a makeup artist for a while I really did it enjoy it because I draw very well, but at some point, somehow naturally, everything happened. You know, just friends and customers around me were asking me for like, pretty much like my style take on whatever is it that they need then. And at some point, you know, also what I come from is a very much a garment production country. Bulgaria is one of the biggest garment manufacturers in Europe, for sure. So it was an experiment in the beginning and then somehow people responded really well. So I said, Okay, why not? You know, it's an interesting venture. And also it happened in a very weird time, I would probably say as well, the first time I started doing clothes, there was the global financial crisis in 2008? 9? And, you know, we weren't actually doing well. So it was a bit of a sign that you know what, maybe we can explore it. So, yeah, that's pretty much the journey.

Will Richardson 04:23
And so why did you decide to pursue a B Corp certification? And what were the motivating factors for you?

Lora Nikolaeva 04:32
You know, like I said, I do try to find a way and prove that a business can be sustainable and still be kind to the environment and to the people. And I think a B Corp is the only certification that I was very interested in as the head of this entity because it sort of looks at the whole operational model. So B Corp doesn't really certify a fabric or product or, you know, an operational activity, it does look at the whole structure of the business, and it does certify your operations at every level of the value chain. So I feel like it was the right thing to do and also, I was pretty sure that we're gonna nail it just because I know that the way I've built things is quite transparent and good in the first place. And I'm a firm believer that's the only way to do it, actually.

Will Richardson 05:32
No, I agree. I agree. We work very closely with Finisterre, another fashion brand.

Lora Nikolaeva 05:36
Yeah, I know them, yeah.

Will Richardson 05:39
It's so interesting to see exactly what you've said that complexity is actually driven down via the B Corp certification and is a really, really good way to make it more transparent.

Lora Nikolaeva 05:52
It's a complex process, I have to say, it's not an easy thing to do. And it takes a bit of time, I think it's even longer now, but I feel like it's worth it. And also, what I really like about B Corp is that it's not as expensive as a lot of the other certifications out there, which doesn't really make sense, because, if your model, business model, the way you operate is good, there should be also rewarded for the business in a way, and you should be sort of, you know, on earth in a way, so you can prove your presence as such, and there are certifications that cost 10s of 1000s of pounds. And for a lot of smaller businesses, this is pretty much unachievable.

Will Richardson 06:40
Absolutely.

Lora Nikolaeva 06:41
I do feel B Corp is really good is a really good step for us.

Will Richardson 06:46
And transparency is a theme that is coming up more and more when I talk to people on this podcast. A number of guests we've had on the show lately have been advocates of transparency and stress the necessity of transparency within businesses to achieve sustainability goals. On the Lora Gene website, you acknowledge the importance of this and strive to be as transparent as possible. Can I ask, first of all, why is transparency important to you? And secondly, why is it difficult for 100% transparency to be achieved in the fashion industry?

Lora Nikolaeva 07:20
I have to say that I have a bit of a different take on transparency, I do feel it's very important and the reason why it's so difficult for fashion businesses is because of the supply chain in the fashion industry is extremely complex, it's probably one of the most complex supply chains out there. And I am someone who is probably going to sound a bit overconfident but I'm someone that feels very aware of, you know, the supply chain simply because again, I come from this country, and I've been very close to the supply chain side more than anything else. It is really fragmented. It's very, you know, spread out. Pretty much a piece of clothing can come from 20 countries just like that easily with no problem. And it's hard for business owners to actually have full transparency for themselves. So I often even argue that at this point, I feel like transparency is a bit overrated. Because I do feel like, okay, it's great that we provide transparency. It's great that we strive and make our structures more and more transparent, but I feel like right now we are at this point where we actually need to be operationally amazing when it comes to sustainability simply because we are at the breaking point, there are so many issues which are not improving, and we are facing scarcity of raw materials, scarcity of staff and trained personnel, we are facing issues which a lot of people within the industry understand, but somehow it's very difficult to translate to the public. So very often, a lot of companies resort to transparency, transparency is important. We're not as sustainable, but we are striving to be and I just feel like it became a bit of a buzzword as well. Yeah, in a way, you know. I don't feel like we use it very often to sort of justify things that we are not aware of ourselves. And very often I also say to people, I mean, I'm a firm believer that business is responsible. And it's also, you know, it's its own place as a business as an entity to change the way it operates. It's not consumers. If you look at history even, like ethical consumers as a concept has been here for what 50 years or more? So what? What happened then? and you know, we are transparent, but if we are 100% transparent, and we show people that we are actually not able to improve our operations, what would the customer be able to do? You know, so I do feel like the responsibility of being transparent and operationally viable from a sustainable point of view has become a bit of a, like I said, a buzzword that's often just thrown out in the air. Oh, we are transparent. Yes, we are, and we are really trying to be, but I feel like for me and this company, and moving forward, this is one of the things it's not at the forefront, action should be at the forefront.

Will Richardson 09:23
Red Herring? Yeah, totally agree. We interviewed Emma Foster-Geering last year from Vivabarefoot. She spoke about the problematic supply chain and fashion and why examining the supply chain is a good approach when assessing whether a fashion brand is ethical or not. To clarify, she suggested rather than believing what you read on our websites, look for real, authentic stories from the people making the individual components to assess how ethical a product is. What is your take on that, and are there other things people should look for when sourcing an ethical fashion brand?

Lora Nikolaeva 11:20
See, this kind of proves my point, which I just made about transparency, I do feel like, it's really important that we look further, but also, it's hard, because you know, how could someone in the UK actually prove or check those facts, when the supply chain of this brand is, for instance, in India? And a lot of the time even the brand owners don't have a clear view of their own supply chain. I definitely agree with what she said. But I do think that one of the issues, why are we not able to achieve that is I call it the big disconnect. You know, it's because of this huge gap in between the people who are actually making things and the people who are consuming things, you know, the whole outsourcing wave, let's put it that way. Because if you think about it up until the 90s, pretty much a lot of the countries had their own local productions, maybe a bit earlier. However, it all left out, you know, and went to the global south-east. This kind of way, and on the west is pretty much where we sell stuff in the developing countries. And very often, I'm just gonna ask you, have you ever heard of garment technicians? Have you ever spoke to someone like a seamstress to tell you how she feels about it? You know, they don't. And it's all like right now, even like these people are coupled in under this term garment workers. But you know, there are so many different professions within this term. And I feel for someone like me, actually, things are much easier because like I said, I come from this country that was very close to me, I spent a lot of time in the factories, I spent about 10 years to make sure that my supply chain is functioning. And I have this, you know, very close connection to the people I work with. But this is not the case with everyone. And I'm not saying this to blame brand owners, because a lot of the times it's not up to choice, it's just how you know, their brands are structured. But I do feel that if there is something we should do, this is one of the major things that we should change, you know, there should be a bit of a step back, and knowing better your own supply chain, as a brand owner will help you make your business more sustainable. And when it comes to consumers. Again, I'm not someone that would agree that consumers should check the facts simply because again, there's so many ways and so many tools which a business can use to even greenwash. I mean, think about it. We know that the big companies like Inditex or H&M and how many times it was out there and in the air that they've done something wrong, and they have these malicious practices based on exploitation and this and that. So what? Did consumers stop buying from them? Yes, of course, as a consumer, you do cast an economic vote, but then do you really how do you know and why would we expect people to be so much educated in something that they're not their profession? You know, I do feel there's a bit of an argument there. So it's hard to check on ethical truths on the websites, B Corp is a good blueprint. It's a good sign, you know because they do check-in that it's a complex process. But pretty much apart from that, I feel, and I'm pretty sure actually, consumers are not able to check further than that.

Will Richardson 15:15
It's hard. It's really hard.

Lora Nikolaeva 15:16
It is hard, it's hard. How?

Will Richardson 15:19
You mentioned a few times that you're not from the UK, and you're actually born and raised in Bulgaria, and textile production is a major industry there. What do you do differently with the factories in Bulgaria that you work with, and what impact do you envision your approach will have?

Lora Nikolaeva 15:38
From a garment perspective point of view, from making garments perspective, I don't think there's anything much different. Besides maybe the fact that I'm very close to them. So I go very often, you know, probably, of course, with the COVID situation a bit less. But before that, I was probably every two months I'm in the factories, I speak to them, you know, I see what they do. I've had my own production for quite a while now, probably about 10 years, smaller production, but you know, my own people. And this helps you a lot to understand how difficult every single process is, and I feel a lot of designers in smaller businesses are much better in that sense, because they are closer to the makers. And this is one of the most important things. But when it comes to fibres, unfortunately, Bulgaria and very few other countries in that side of the world, have been devastated from raw fibres production. For instance, we've been the biggest exporter of silk up until the 90s. And everything was completely privatised and sold out and diminished. So this is one of my passion projects, and something I'm pretty much invested into trying to do, reviving silk fibre production in Bulgaria. We have the climate, we have the land, we have, you know, the expertise, we have pretty much everything. So that's something I'm really looking forward to and I feel it's also one of the solutions, the possible business solutions for a lot of businesses out there because, you know, the scarcity in raw fibres is real, and it's becoming more and more and more. And if we don't look up into projects like that, we are not going in a good direction.

Will Richardson 17:35
So what are those different fibres that you use in your products and why do you use them?

Lora Nikolaeva 17:42
When you say different, I have to say that I'm very traditional when it comes to fibres simply because I believe silk is probably 70% of everything we do. But I do use a lot of cotton, a lot of linen, a lot of wool. I am a huge believer that clothing should be made from natural fibres. Of course, there are great solutions in innovative fibres as well, but most of them are pretty much far off from scale. So you don't really have access, especially smaller companies. And it's just not a viable thing to do. But the reason why I use and most of us should use natural fibres is there are very few simple reasons. You know, natural fibres are less, do less longer. They're much better simply for comfort, and they biodegrade you know, it's a natural sort of cycle. So if I have to be completely honest, I don't know how the truth got twisted to this extent. And people still, honestly, it's like, you talk to professionals in the fibre industry, like you go to PT or any tradeshow and you're like how did people become so delusional and misled into believing that polyester could be more sustainable fibre than cotton, for instance. These narratives which are completely tied to commercially invested interests from a variety of people it is just not true. You know, which natural fibres are the best possible thing that you can use, and they will always be the best possible thing that you can use, especially if they're done in a sustainable way in an ethical production line. And you know what most of them are, because a small farm in India, even if they wanted, they couldn't really do anything that bad or wrong. It's just small scale operations usually are way more sustainable by default.

Will Richardson 19:58
Which leads me on to my next question about sustainable initiatives that you've implemented at Lora Gene, to reduce your carbon emissions and waste, and could you tell us a bit about them?

Lora Nikolaeva 20:09
So, first of all, we are relatively small, so I wouldn't say it's, you know. But again, if you build it that way, it's going to last and move on that way. So one of the things that we do is pretty much all the waste is turned into something. So you know, let's say we cut the dress from silk, and all the leftovers are made into scrunchies, eye masks and things like that, then that's one of the things that we do, pretty much everything else goes into some kind of product. Or if there is a bit of a waste, it's tiny, tiny, tiny, and it doesn't really make any difference. But in general, most of the waste is turned into a product. And I feel like this is extremely important for any sort of operations right now. Because if you think about how to make your business model more sustainable, one of the solutions, especially when it comes to design business, is within the design. If you design a product, which by default is designed with sustainability in mind, rather than novelty or trend, it's very common that it will be a sustainable product anyway. So I feel like one of the solutions is basically how you design it in the first place.

Will Richardson 21:34
In your opinion, what problems are associated with the textile industry that contributes to climate change and environmental damage?

Lora Nikolaeva 21:45
Many [laughs] Way too many that I would like it, but way too many. The truth is there are a lot of-. One of the things that I really want to say to your listeners, and I keep on repeating is that there is a major issue in this whole conversation about sustainable fashion. And it's basically based on the fact that it's entirely built on misconception and misinformation. You know, even if you look at the most common numbers, for instance, if you probably heard that yourself that it takes 2700 or 2500, or something like that litre of water to make a T-shirt. Right? You probably heard that one. It's far from the truth. It's not true. Same as what I've just said about polyester, it's more sustainable because it's longer and you know, recycled and this and that, it's not true. I feel one of the things that we really need to change is start talking with facts, straighten the facts. And this is one of the most, most, most important things.

Will Richardson 22:57
Surely it makes a difference on where the cotton is grown for the amount of water that's used or does that not come into the equation?

Lora Nikolaeva 23:07
Of course, it does. But according to the cotton data book, for instance, just for instance, on top of my head, I think a couple of years ago they came out with it's about 1200 or something. So it's half of those and actually, it's not even the right figure because it's basically about 500 litres additionally from what it takes as a general consumption.

Will Richardson 23:32
And is that organic?

Lora Nikolaeva 23:34
Not just the standard cotton.

Will Richardson 23:36
Because I think it's organic that takes the most water, isn't it?

Lora Nikolaeva 23:42
True, but organic cotton accounts for just about 6% of the whole cotton crops in the world. There's a lot of you know, definitely-. Which comes to say, I'm really not trying to tell you that, you know, the fashion industry is very environmentally sound. I'm just saying that I think a lot of those things that we've heard are not true. And even before the conversation, I had with you I just went down to check and this information is on lots of you know, prominent websites.

Will Richardson 24:15
Where do you think it comes from and why do you think it's talked about like that?

Lora Nikolaeva 24:21
Because it's true. But the major issues are sitting in the overproduction of quotes. One of the things is overproduction, of course. And the second major issue I feel is the exploitation issues, you know, which again comes with the big disconnect between producers, sellers, makers, this is where a lot of those misconceptions lie as well.

Will Richardson 24:49
Do you think the fashion industry is responding appropriately and quickly enough to the climate crisis?

Lora Nikolaeva 24:57
No. The reason why I mention design is because, again, I'm a true believer that if you have an operation or model or business model that is designed with sustainability in mind, and that goes into the quotes as well, and into every product you produce, then you can respond to the climate crisis, to the social crisis, to the scarcity of fibres, to pretty much any sort of challenge that comes your way. In a sustainability kind of way, if that makes sense at all. Fashion is built on the idea about novelty, most of the brands out there are making garments with the major presumption, newness for the sake of newness, and that's the major problem. And that could have been relevant for 50 years. But unfortunately, we live in a world where maybe we shouldn't design with novelty in mind. Right now, if you look at most of the fashion companies, you will see that novelty is the only measure. It is the only measure of how we truly measure a successful brand. And that's what sells and that's what people really are after. So I feel like there should be a major shift, which I can see happening, especially in the consumers mind, it's probably going to take time, but in general, the industry is extremely inflexible, because also, you know, we're talking about one of the biggest industries in the world, it's huge. It's a lot of money, a lot of profits, it's a lot of interest tied into the whole thing and in the equation. So it is not an easy thing to solve, you know, I'm never gonna stand in between. I feel like we need also a little bit of a balanced approach, because a lot of people say, oh, but you know, companies like H&M shouldn't exist. And I have to say, I don't mind if they don't exist, but the fact is that they exist, and they employ 1000s and 1000s of people, and it's not as easy to find a solution for those people as well. So, yeah, we don't, the industry really doesn't respond on time, but also, I don't think they have the means to respond if that makes sense at all.

Will Richardson 27:27
Yeah, it makes complete sense. In Gene, every product is done after extremely careful research and development process. In the clothing and the home wear categories, we only use natural fibre mainly silk and cotton, but also linen, hemp and bamboo. We also use innovative manmade fibres like tensile known as the sustainable brand of viscose. The fibre also originates from the renewable raw material wood and is created by photosynthesis, it is brought to life in a closed loop production process, the water used is recycled and fewer chemicals are required during the manufacturer. And it goes without saying that the trees used for this product are managed under strict regulations to make sure there is no harm being made to our planet. Is it as scientific as it sounds?

Lora Nikolaeva 28:19
Well, listen, I do try and simplify the conversation when it comes to fibres because I'm myself, I'm very invested in understanding a lot, I'm very invested in you know, doing the silk project. And there is a lot of science behind every raw fibre out there, you wouldn't believe it, especially what's going on in silk right now is amazing, you know, scientists call it the Asian material of the future, because there is so much innovation that's happening there. But everything really goes together, I'm very interested in trying to find solutions, which sometimes might be an innovative fibre or sometimes might be the mix in between a traditional fibre and innovative fibre. But again, fibres are the second step of how you design things. Because if I, anyone out there, if we design again with only novelty in mind, and we design a lot in volumes, whichever fibre we use is not going to be sustainable because it's about limiting our production. Production has its own impact, and it's not only in fibres. So I often say you know, don't go crazy into fibres, we can because it's our work but i think you know, consumers should be educated but there is no wrong fibre when it comes to especially to like natural fibres. I would say try and not buy polyesters, try and not buy anything which is artificial simply because it's not even nice to wear it you know, but I do realise that a lot of people don't have a choice. You know, sometimes it's about whether you can afford something or not. So, yeah, there's a lot of science in raw fibres, and we try and educate all the time. Sometimes we do it successfully, sometimes it's a bit tricky because it's just complex.

Will Richardson 30:16
Finally, if you could demand three things to be immediately implemented across the fashion sector, to make it more ethical and environmentally sustainable, what would they be? And why?

Lora Nikolaeva 30:28
I think probably, should they be reasonable?

Will Richardson 30:33
Let's go as crazy as we want.

Lora Nikolaeva 30:35
Lets go crazy, let's go crazy. [laughs].

Will Richardson 30:36
Let's go for the, you know, the things that you really wants.

Lora Nikolaeva 30:41
So first, I would probably just forbid any kind of artificial fibres, you know, or just minimise them as much as I can. So if we can use polyester fibres, or polyamide, or nylons and stuff, we have to use it to the very minimum just to bond fibres.

Will Richardson 30:58
On that, a lot of the fibres that you're saying, in clothes for mountaineering, sports, sports wear clothes, is it possible to make those highly efficient clothes out of natural fibres?

Lora Nikolaeva 31:14
No, that's why I said we should minimise them.

Will Richardson 31:16
Right, okay.

Lora Nikolaeva 31:16
Even, we use a lot of yarns, for instance, and yarns sometimes you will bond for instance, something very, very soft, let's say cashmere, or alpaca, or baby alpaca, they're really soft, so you need a bit of nylon to bond the fibre and make it a bit more long lasting, really, durable. So that's why I said minimise them just for the fibres that will be used in in that, but there is also a lot of innovation and research happening. So hopefully soon, we might be able to do it just from natural fibres, or manmade fibres, like, you know, tensile or innovation over tensile or something. The second one would probably be pay garment workers not the minimum wage, but a good decent wage. And I would say that's one of the major things, if we elevate the industry, we will solve half of the issues we have right now.

Will Richardson 32:18
You pay an extra 10%, don't you? And sometimes up to more than 50%?

Lora Nikolaeva 32:23
Yeah, yeah, every time we can I really, really try because I feel like-. And this has worked miracles, because with every person, we function in a capitalistic frame, right? Every person thrives on being paid better. And you know, they have the same needs as me and you and everyone else, okay, in the different countries in different level of income, but still, you know, they still want to go to holiday, have a nice life, have a house. And I just feel like this is the very minimum we should do, we should try and pay government workers better, depending on their skill level. And that's one of the things I would implement immediately. And probably the third, as I would make sure designers don't design based on trends. This is a bit of a, you know, it's a topic, but it would be really nice, because just imagine if-. I often imagine myself, what if all the entrepreneurs especially in my industry and where I function, do things with purpose now because of you know, an ego trip, not because we want to buy something, with purpose. That's something that's genuinely needed something that actually people want, you know, I feel like that's gonna-.

Will Richardson 33:50
I don't think any of those three are that out there. I think the third is probably down to the consumer and not buying fashion items. And the other two are very reasonable and quite possible, potentially.

Lora Nikolaeva 34:08
Yeah, it's just a bit of, you know, we often have this argument, and I'm pretty sure you heard it yourself. It should be regulated. How do you regulate the free market, though? You know, that is a bit of a question over there as well, especially in a global world where you have markets liberalised, how do you impose regulations, which doesn't mean we shouldn't regulate? It means that it's not as simple as just simply impose regulation?

Will Richardson 34:36
I think it's a mixture. Some governments do it right, and some governments do it better than others.

Lora Nikolaeva 34:43
Yep. Exactly. But also some companies do it better than others. So definitely, it's like, you know, business is what brings value, right?

Will Richardson 34:50
Yeah.

Lora Nikolaeva 34:51
And we need to find a way to bring value without being that damaging to the nature, to the environment.

Will Richardson 34:57
Absolutely. Well, Lora, thank you so much for joining us today.

Lora Nikolaeva 35:01
Thank you so much for having me, and for listening. Hopefully, people will find it helpful as well.

Will Richardson 35:07
It's been absolutely fascinating. And thank you for listening to the Sustainable Business podcast. If you enjoyed today's content, why not join our post-podcast discussion in our online community at sustainabilitysolved.org. Join now and find a space to collaborate with like-minded professionals, learn more about sustainable business, and inspire others to become more environmental. And if you enjoy this podcast, make sure you subscribe so you get every episode and don't forget to follow Green Elements on LinkedIn, Twitter, and Instagram.