Season 3, Episode 148 : Debbie Luffman

Will Richardson 00:05
Welcome to the Green Element podcast where we meet business leaders and innovators transforming their operations to be more environmentally and socially sustainable, and in the process help you on your journey of sustainability. I'm your host Will Richardson. Today we are speaking with Debbie Luffman, the Product Director at Finisterre. Finisterre is an outdoor apparel company who have embedded sustainability throughout their business practices and products. They are a certified B Corp company, who use water soluble packaging and offer a repair service to lengthen the lifespan of their products. Debbie has over 16 years of experience in the fashion and textiles industry, which spans design, buying, sourcing, and range building. Debbie has put her expertise to good use by founding Think Circular, a sustainability consultancy, and she is a trustee at Hubbub, an organisation who campaign for real and impactful behaviour change. Debbie, welcome.

Debbie Luffman 01:05
Thanks very much for the intro. Thanks Will, great to be here.

Will Richardson 01:08
Can I start by asking you how it was that you arrived in the fashion industry and how your passion for sustainability came about?

Debbie Luffman 01:15
Yeah, so I mean, back when I was a teenager, I was a bit of an eco-warrior, to be honest, a bit of a tree hugger and wanted to pursue something. I think I was very creative, I was very interested in Creative Industries, but didn't really know where to go and somehow I ended up studying fashion. And I was able to sort of carve out a bit of a niche in terms of being really interested in textiles, and particularly sustainable and functional fibres. I was also really sporty, so it sort of gave me this real interest in into the fibres that did something. So once I studied fashion, I kind of had quite high ideals of what I was going to go and do after university, and unfortunately had a big old student loan as you do. So I got the first job that came by me and sort of ended up immersed in this quite sort of sequiny high-fashion -. It's not fast fashion, I should say it was high street -. There wasn't such a thing as fast fashion back then [laughs]. So I was in this world that was pretty much at odds with my values at the time and didn't really fit with who I was. So, as is always the right thing to do, I dropped out and went travelling. I went travelling in South America, joined the circus, travelled up Brazil up the coast and then landed in Peru where I got involved in organic cotton fields and farm translating, and suddenly I was like, hang on a minute, I'm not done with textiles. I'm not done actually with sort of broader fashion and textiles. There is a link here to nature, just getting back to fibres really. And then to really realise that actually I was passionate about textiles more than I was about fashion.

Will Richardson 03:08
Sounds like a dream job. Finisterre, sports, textiles, fashion, sustainability. [laughs]

Debbie Luffman 03:15
Yeah, it was pretty lucky. I'm not gonna lie. I didn't find a LinkedIn advert or anything for Finisterre, it was through one of my best friends at university was then at Finisterre, there were three of us. Not a lot of work happened. Not an awful lot of money. You know, it was really sort of dreams surfing. Yeah, good times I'm not gonna lie. It was good. Very lucky.

Will Richardson 03:42
Brilliant. And why is sustainability important to Finisterre?

Debbie Luffman 03:47
Yeah, I mean, it's really interesting when I think, it's so embedded in who we are, that actually, it sort of feels like the rest of the world is kind of talking about this all of a sudden, which is great. But it was so embedded, from the start, it was a bit of a no brainer. I think a lot of it is to do with our location. So we are in Cornwall, we're extremely lucky to be perched on a cliff edge that looks over the sea and I think that is just such an incredibly focusing as a lighthouse for everybody that works for Finisterre. The sea gives us purpose, inspires us, but it's also a sort of a warning to us, I think as well that we're bound to protect it, it's our playground. So you know, it's this kind of harmony, I suppose with nature that really sort of drives everybody. It's our dog walk at lunchtime. You know, it is is our sort of our fun, our inspiration, our kind of restoration. It's kind of everything so yeah, but incredibly important to the business and to the products that we make.

Will Richardson 04:56
And what do you think Finisterre does differently to other outdoor apparel brands?

Debbie Luffman 05:01
I mean, I think it's worth saying that a lot of outdoor apparel brands actually are really moving this agenda forward. So I kind of want to call that out. Compared to my background in the fashion industry, where I think there's an awful lot of chatter, I think the outdoor industry is doing some really progressive and innovative things, particularly on a fabric front. It's that the materials that are required for functional products, you know, often synthetics, which are sort of quite near bashed, in regards to bashed plastics. Actually, the outdoor apparel industry, really is making bigger strides there than the fashion industry, I would say. In terms of where Finisterre comes in, I think we just looked at, okay, there's a place for these synthetics, we know that we need to make materials which are long lasting, and weatherproof, and durable, and fit for purpose, all of the things that the outdoor industry requires for their products. But we were very much around switching out these materials as early as possible. So hey, if it's got to be polyester, then it's got to be recycled polyester. If it's got to be recycled polyester, it's got to be 100% recycled polyester. So I think we didn't really accept no, we were just quite pushy from the start and saying well why? Why can't we have it 100% recycled polyester? So yeah, a bit of bloody mindedness.

Will Richardson 06:33
Going on your point that the outdoor apparel industry is more forward thinking, do you think that's because on the whole, when you're buying outdoor apparel, there has to be better quality, it tends to be more expensive, you are buying it for a purpose. So either to climb or to sail or to whatever. So, that must play into the fact that you then have bigger margins in order to be able to invest in your product line?

Debbie Luffman 07:09
Yeah, I mean, I think some of it is to do with, as you say, the margins. But I think some of its more fundamental than that, in terms of if you are making a product to do with certain things, from a functional point of view, it requires you to understand something about textiles. What are the benefits of that material, whether it be insulating or waterproof or windproof. In the fashion industry, my experience is very much based on price and aesthetic. What does it look like? You know, it's very, very different set of requirements. So, I think that's the main difference between the two. So if you know what something is made of, it's an awful lot easier to then improve upon it. So you get okay, it's cotton. Well, where's that cotton coming from? What's the water impact? What's the carbon impact? If you don't know what it's made of in the first place, then, you know, knowledge is power. So yeah, I think that, for me, is the big fundamental.

Will Richardson 08:10
And do you think the outdoor apparel industry is doing enough to tackle the climate crisis?

Debbie Luffman 08:16
I mean, lets be honest, we've got to up the ante on that sense of urgency and action. And so it's a no, I do think a lot is being done, a lot particularly through collaboration. So I think a lot of people, particularly in the outdoor industry, are working together to seek improvements that are required across the value chain. So I think a lot is being done but fundamentally, we absolutely need to work faster. A lot of the things that I think of, I suppose if I'm truly honest, too much of the budget is being spent on the marketing side and not on the r&d, right. So, the greenwashing that is prevalent is just confusing everybody and slowing progress down. You know, for me, the money needs to be spent working with the supply chain, and working collaboratively across the industry to push the agenda forward. So, signs of life, definitely lots of positive signs of life. But no, we absolutely need to crack on.

Will Richardson 09:25
Brilliant, that's good. A few weeks ago, we had John Brown on our podcast to encourage businesses to have an unwavering focus on honesty, and an honest communication strategy with customers. I noticed on your websites, there is a section called the Factories of Finisterre, and customers can click on this to see where the Finisterre products are actually made and who works there. Did you choose to share this information with your customers?

Debbie Luffman 09:54
Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I absolutely applaud the view that we need to have a more honest approach from brands to our consumers. For me, the reason why we've implemented the Factories of Finisterre on our site is really about transparency over traceability. I think there's a real focus on the industry to sort of harness gimmicks around the customer sort of being able to trace something, we're actually it's about transparency, it's about saying: this is who we work with, this is what it's made of, this is where it comes from, for the customer to make their own mind up. And I think this is, for me, the antithesis of greenwashing. The consumer needs to be able to know the facts and to understand how we'll have a deeper understanding of where things are made of. So I'll give you an example. I all the time have customers, who will come either at events or through customer services, who are really surprised that our products are not all made in Cornwall. They've got this impression that because they've understood that we're a brand from Cornwall, and then down the track they feel disappointed, sometimes let down, and sometimes angry. And like they're being duped that we've not made all of our products in Cornwall. And I've got to sit there and say nothing is made in Cornwall apart from pasties, you know, show me the organic cotton field, and the manufacturing facilities. So for me, this is about giving people, citizens, the tools to deepen their understanding, so you can understand what normal is to then be able to understand what good and better and best is. So for me, that's why the transparency and the honest approach is is key where we need to be.

Will Richardson 11:50
That must be really hard conversations to have, because I would imagine they'd be quite passionate individuals as well that are slightly letdown.

Debbie Luffman 11:58
Absolutely. Yeah, you feel like you're sort of crushing all their dreams. But you know, we've got to have some grown-up conversations, I think.

Will Richardson 12:06
Yeah. That's brilliant. And so what advice would you give to environmentally conscious consumers when trying to spot greenwashed products or brands?

Debbie Luffman 12:17
Yeah, that's a great question as well. I think there's a lot that the consumer can do, I think we need to somehow occupy somewhere between a healthy dose of cynicism, and a big old dollop of optimism as well. I think some of the common sense, if someone's telling you that a plastic shoe is vegan leather, you've got a really kind of go hang on a minute, what does that mean, unpick the words, you know, it's not vegan leather, it's plastic. Some of those words, we've just sort of been exposed to this nonsense, actually. So I think some of it's common sense, but in terms of real kind of practical things that the consumer can do, it's about buying well. Buying stuff that you know you're going to look after, that you're going to get plenty of wear out don't buy into trends. And you know the difference, you know something that's sort of cheap quality, it's probably cheap, it's not going to not gonna last. Avoiding blends is a really, really key point as well. So trying to move away, if you look at the wash care label of something that's got five different materials in it, down the track that's going to be very difficult to recycle or even to upcycle, actually. So blends is something that's really key. But more than anything buy well, wash well, learn to repair, share, if you're going on a once in a lifetime trip, when we remember what travelling is again, do you need to buy all the gear and have it you know, or can you share it? Can you pass it on? Can you resell it? There's so much now that the customer can do to engage a more sustainable advocacy in the community.

Will Richardson 14:13
I would hazard a guess that the quality of Finisterre would mean that you've probably got quite a good secondhand market out there. You find that don't you with the better brands.

Debbie Luffman 14:27
Yeah, it's a really interesting point. We're just about to launch our trading and e-commerce platform, and it's been a really interesting journey researching this. There is a much higher resale value in your particularly outdoor or more premium brands, quite simply because it's been made out of superior fabrics being built to last. So it's really, really key and it's probably the most sustainable thing if somebody said to me, what's the most sustainable product you can make? It is the vast majority of the impact of that product has been in its processing, its manufacturer, its transportation, distribution. So what you do once you as a customer have it, look after it, have it for a long time, share it, resell it. It's the real next wave on the circular journey, where the customer actually has the power.

Will Richardson 15:35
At some point, we'll be able to keep an eye on clothes, won't we. I mean, we're not probably there yet with technology but you'll have something that you can just sew into the material, and it will tell you how old it is, and when it was-. And so therefore, that would introduce a new era of traceability that we've not got at the moment,

Debbie Luffman 15:58
Completely. It's something that we're looking at. The area that I find more interesting within that whole discussion is the stories. So I think, clothes are incredibly individual and personal to us. And the idea that you get to share your stories from one owner to the next, and this idea of shared ownership, that's what I love about the idea of technology, being able to weave our stories together, as opposed to just arbitrary tech and saying, came from here and made of this. But you're right,

Will Richardson 16:33
If it was NFC, you could just you tap it with your phone, and up it would come on the thing-. And then you could write down what you did on that day. And then when you pass it on, the next person would tap on it and that'd be cool. An online journal of your shirts, and you can look back at where your shirt had been, oh, it's been to the Himalayas. [laughs]

Debbie Luffman 16:55
Exactly, exactly. Unfortunately, I'm useless on tech. So if I had the skills, I would be building that app right now. But it's definitely my dream. And I think we sort of have a little bit of a window there on our repair service where we have our customers that will request a repair to be visibly mended. So to have like brightly coloured contrast patches on a jacket. And I love that because I think it's a similar idea of telling those stories, you know, maybe they jumped over a fence and jagged it here on a fun weekend travelling away somewhere or whatever. I just love the idea that our clothes can tell these stories and share our little badges of adventures. I think there's so much more. The personalization, it's more fun.

Will Richardson 17:48
In your opinion, what's problems associated with the textile industry contribute to climate change and environmental damage?

Debbie Luffman 17:58
Well, unfortunately, it's not a short list. Really, our ocean health, our soil health, human and animal health, are all affected by the textile and clothing industry. It's a very sort of hard truth and a sobering fact. However, I do take solace from the fact that we know this now, you know 25 years ago, we were sort of merrily making dreadfully toxic materials so blindly. So actually, we do know that some of the materials that we use, we just need to stop using some of them and some of the processes. So you know, quite simple sort of moves that have happened in the last decade even, moving from cotton to organic cotton, and to regenerative farming. These are big, big steps forward that have a big impact on carbon, have an impact on ocean health, soil health, and obviously in turn on human and animal welfare. So I think we're going through this real incremental kind of improvements and I'm extremely positive that we can get to a point where we have net-positive materials. At the moment, I think we need to be quite patient with the technology. So some of the steps that we need to take today to improve the materials and the products that we make, we need to make them now. So circular design, design for repair, design for recyclability; infrastructure is not quite in quite there yet. We're all waiting for this fibre to fibre recycling. It's coming, it's going to come, the investment is there but we just need to really put the time in the due diligence in at the beginning across the board. Particularly arming our designers, also creative people so that they understand that the selections and the decisions they make in the products that they create is so important in terms of it might be 10 years down the track before that product needs to be recycled or repaired. But that's put the time in at the design phase.

Will Richardson 20:26
That makes sense. And you mentioned organic cotton, and you read about organic cotton using more water. And it's usually grown in more water-spouse areas. What should we be thinking as consumers with that?

Debbie Luffman 20:48
Yeah, so this is the really tricky trade off, if I can come back a step from it. People often ask, what's the best textile or the most sustainable fibre or material? And I think that plays into your question there. And they all have good and bad, right? So you know, something like organic cotton is thirsty. It's not as thirsty as cotton, so you've made an improvement there. But then if you say, okay, well, it's not too bad on the carbon front, but it loses some marks on water. You get something like polyester and okay, not so bad on the waterfront, not so bad on carbon, but a microfiber issue at the end of life. Recycled polyester, bit better still, so you know you've got these little incremental trade-offs. We thought we'd found in all in wool, because wool is a biodegradable fibre, it's renewable, it's not got a particularly large water footprint, but unfortunately it's a carbon intensive fibre mainly because of its processing from sheep through to mill. So all of the things you have to identify the sort of the good and the bad all the way through its lifecycle, and say, how can we make it better? There's a lot I think, in terms of recycled wool, it's very interesting, recycled cotton as well. So you're minimising the input from the early stages of that processing and production where a lot of the impact is felt. But again, I really sort of say that so much of this conversation is really quite fresh. I've been involved for over a decade in sustainable fibres and trying to understand these trade offs. I feel like I've only just woken up to a lot of this information, it's still quite fresh, innovation is happening daily, and as is investment to move this agenda forward so that we're using less water, we're minimising the energy that's going in and we're pushing recycled so that we don't have to keep using virgin fibres.

Will Richardson 23:05
And you're doing a lot in wetsuits aren't you? You've got a lot of research in-. I think you're working with Exeter University?

Debbie Luffman 23:12
Yeah, absolutely.

Will Richardson 23:13
Can you tell us a bit about what you're doing with regards to the wetsuit technology and fabrics going into wetsuits?

Debbie Luffman 23:19
Yeah, we kind of picked the hardest product there is I would say in terms of from an apparel point of view. Anybody that's ever worn a wetsuit, I think you'll understand this more, but to paint the picture the wetsuit maximises your time in the sea, so your enjoyment factor exponentially increases by the quality of your wetsuit. So this piece of rubber that's wrapped around you, that will keep you warm and dry in the sea, is also pretty filthy thing. So, even if you say you don't, everyone pees in their wetsuit, you leave it in your garage or the back of your car, you abuse it, it's a pretty gross kind of product. In terms of how it is produced at the outset, it's a highly toxic process, blown neoprene, the glues that are used as solvents to attach these different composite materials together, which all of these things increase your time in the water and your enjoyment factors, they're massively at odds with one another. So from a Finisterre point of view, we've taken this two fold approach. One, we've moved away from using any neoprene so we have switched entirely to yulex, which is a natural rubber. So from a carbon and a water footprint point of view, massively reduced compared to neoprene. The other side of our work is around wetsuits from wetsuits, which really is about as hard as you can go on this. So, you know, we look to jumpers from t shirts and beanies from jeans. And all of this is technically possible at the moment, it's just a few more dots to join and a few more emails to send. But actually wetsuits from wetsuits is really been a bit of a tough one. So we employed working with Exeter University several years ago, the world's first wetsuit recycler, to understand how we work backwards from this goal of having wetsuits from wetsuits. So I'm really pleased to say that we're very, very nearly at the commercial stage of looking at how these materials can be deconstructed through looking at alternatives to glues. Actually a lot of our issues, in general, around fibre to fibre recycling, is just this is a global industry, so we might find exactly who we need to work with but they're in Australia, and they've got to go via China. So some of these things we've just got to overcome and the next decade is going to be about shrinking the supply chain and making those intelligent jumps and to complete the loop. But yes, it's happening.

Will Richardson 26:21
As a kite surfer, you're basically talking about nuclear fusion, aren't you?

Debbie Luffman 26:27
[laughs]

Will Richardson 26:27
It's brilliant. I love it. I mean, I don't buy wet suits that often as you as you know, if you do buy good quality wetsuits, but the price of your wetsuits are more. That's because you're getting quality, isn't it?

Debbie Luffman 26:44
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, going back to that point around you know it's a serious bit of kit, if you take it seriously. Now I live in Cornwall, I see, unfortunately, I've got to be honest, I see bins on the beach full of children's sort of once worn, poor quality, wet suits, you know, this is happening, unfortunately. I think if you are a water man or woman, and you're going in the sea, I think if you have a relationship with the ocean, you should be thinking about the products that you're buying to go in there as well. For me, it's sort of it feels like a bit of a no brainer, but it is a lot of money. We're also really interested in the rental market again, if you are only going surfing once or twice a year, do you need your own wetsuit? So there's other opportunities there. It doesn't have to be to spend a fortune. There are there's lots of other ways around this. One thing that we've done with the men's and women's wetsuits as we've developed them, we've had a wetsuit tester programme, which has been just such an engaging group of people who've been giving us that feedback in terms of what could be better, how's that fit? How does it feel? How does it age? And that's really important. The feedback that goes into the development of the product and continually pushing for improvements, it's vital.

Will Richardson 28:19
Well, as chairman of the Blue Sky Sports Association, I know a number of kite surfers that would go down and test for you, because they would be pushing it to its limits in that respect. Sadly, it's not the angle.

Debbie Luffman 28:32
[laughs]

Will Richardson 28:34
[laughs]. I wish it was I really wish it was. Finisterre run a number of campaigns and initiatives in environmental activism, and a lot of that focuses on health of our oceans. Why is the health of our oceans so important? And what are the problems that you're trying to bring attention to?

Debbie Luffman 28:55
Again, it's a big focus of what we're doing. Actually two weeks ago, we just had a an amazing event that we just ran called Sea Seven which was an ocean activism training camp. It's the first time we've ever done anything like that. Obviously challenged because of COVID restrictions. It was a largely online event but that was probably a good thing because it meant our reach was far beyond that of a small event in Cornwall. And the reason why we put Sea Seven on was really about trying to connect people to the idea that everybody whether you're a surfer or you live by the coast or not, we are all connected to the ocean. And we all need the ocean for our future health. From a carbon point of view, our oceans are huge carbon sinks and they are being negatively exposed to the dangers of climate change through acidification and ecosystems that are dying out. It's the warming of the seas is something that is going to affect everybody. And we're really interested in terms of what can we do as a community? How can we engage and align and, and come together actually to protect the ocean? And what's been really interesting as well, through the activism campaigns that we've been running, is, it's not just about people who live by the coast, In fact it's probably more important that you're focusing on the people that don't already have a relationship with our oceans. I think it's really hard to expect somebody who doesn't have a connection with the natural world to understand why they should protect it, or why they should respect it, and make decisions that are about protecting our natural world. So a lot of our activism just surrounds allowing people to engage with that natural world, whether that is a photography or film event in an urban store, that allows people to see the beauty of the ocean and to be inspired. Or it's about people who can't get to the sea, and they have barriers of access, whether disability or location. So, to be honest, our ocean activism campaigns are quite broad and quite far reaching in terms of it's just all rooted in this idea of giving people access to enable them to have a relationship in order to then protect what you love.

Will Richardson 31:38
And lastly, can I please ask what the future of sustainability at Finisterre looks like? Are there any exciting new developments in the pipeline to reduce your carbon footprint even further?

Debbie Luffman 31:49
Yeah, I mean, absolutely. As you can tell by now, I don't give short answers to these things [laughs].

Will Richardson 31:55
[laughs].

Debbie Luffman 31:56
But it's very much a continuous evolution. You know, it isn't it isn't about sort of turn a campaign on or off. So it is very much a continuation of our targets, to continue sourcing renewable recycled fabrics, to help have zero waste and fully circular products. A lot of our attention in the last 12 months, working with with Green Element has been incredibly enlightening in terms of understanding where our key impacts from a carbon point of view are. This has been a really important step for us to take to understand our products and the material mixes and supply chain, where we can make these incremental improvements and then the impact that they have over a longer time. So that's I think, where we're at the moment is very much around making these material changes. We've discovered through our carbon footprint project that our materials are our highest footprints, it's not a surprise but it's allowed us really to have the facts in front of us to then go, okay, let's do some scenarios, what if we switch from 80/20 wool nylon to 100% recycled? What does that look like in wool? So, this is quite fun. We've been doing a lot of that. The other side of the coin, we've been looking at investing more in bio materials, so we're doing a lot in terms of biodegradable synthetics and in terms of bio based renewable materials. Algae is where it's going to be at for me, I've got my eye on algae as a source of material as a fibre, but also as a carbon removal project as well. So really, it's kind of a two-for-one aligning with our activism and protection of the seas, and potentially with our products as well. So I've got a long list if I'm honest, but it's really a continuation of everything we've been doing. Our work will never be done really, it's a long list.

Will Richardson 33:52
Okay, right. Operational footprint, how's that going? Are you are you reducing, as a business, forgetting about your products, but operationally?

Debbie Luffman 34:26
Yeah, I mean, if I'm honest with you, the operational side of things is the easy part. Yeah, we've got a huge supply chain across eight different territories. 27 different factories. You know, that's the challenge in front of us. I'm always amazed when I hear that companies say that they their carbon neutral or that they are net zero and they're there already, and then they are only across scopes one and two and you're like, what!?But you know, scope three is really where that impact is, where that real change is. So for us, when we've looked at the information around us as a business, the changes that we can and will be making in the next 12 months or more than achievable in terms of switching completely to renewable energy, and so nearly there. Again with the transport and distribution, as well as the Korean network, some of this stuff is just a case of a switch. We're quite lucky I think in that respect, that in the UK, there's already the infrastructures getting there, we're not perfect by any stretch, but they're the easy fixes for us, truth be told. The biggest challenge for us lies in our supply chain and materials and transportation.

Will Richardson 35:50
The freight transportation is interesting, we do all the carbon reporting with Compare Your Footprint for Surfdome and Internet Fusion. And you can now go on the Surfdome website and choose which courier is the most environmental, to bring it back? It's quite interesting what they're doing there. Because of the data that we've now got from all of their transport, they're actually pushing people to the more sustainable option.

Debbie Luffman 36:17
Yeah, it's fantastic. I mean, it's been interesting, we've had our stores closed pretty much for you know, the majority of the last 18 months our retail stores have been closed. But now they're reopening, we're realising as well that the role they can play. So in terms of, you know, 4% of our transport and distribution carbon footprint was from customer returns. If you can go into store and try something on and minimise that having to buy two to return one, I'm dreadful for it I'll be honest, I hate to admit it. You know, it's the role of retail here as well, in terms of we're moving more to digital, but actually, where can we make those changes, you can try something on, click and collect, store collect. We've got so many options now as consumers, and I think it's brilliant. If the consumer can have the option or they can say I'm not in a rush, send it to me in a few days, I'll have it by bike. So, yeah, a lot of options I think.

Will Richardson 37:21
It pushes those transport companies as well. Because if they're suddenly losing work, and saying oh we're not actually getting the work, they'll start greening their fleets up, etc, etc.

Debbie Luffman 37:28
Yeah, absolutely.

Will Richardson 37:30
Thank you so much for joining us today.

Debbie Luffman 37:32
My pleasure. Great to be here.

Will Richardson 37:34
And thanks for listening to the Sustainable Business podcast. If you enjoyed today's content, why not join our post-podcast discussion in our online community at sustainabilitysolved.org. We will be sharing ideas and collaborating on sustainable clothing and the textile industry with our members. Join now and find a space to collaborate with like-minded professionals, learn more about sustainable business, and inspire others to become more environmental. We also have an important update for our listeners, who will soon be changing the name of this podcast to Sustainability Solved to better reflect the content of our podcast. You will be able to access all of our original podcasts on your preferred platform. And if you enjoy this podcast, please make sure you subscribe to every episode and don't forget to follow Green Element on LinkedIn, Twitter and Instagram.