Season 3, Episode 112 : Christian Arno

Will Richardson 00:01
Christian, thank you so much for joining the Green Element Podcast. I'm so looking forward to talking to you about Pawprint and why pawprint was set up, it's a fascinating business, and you've done exceptionally well, with the take up, which is unsurprising because people and businesses are wanting to be more sustainable. Can you tell us a bit more about who you are? And your business, please? Sure.

Christian Arno 00:29
Yeah, well, so thank you very much for having me on. So this Pawprint is my second business, I built a translation business before. And I guess, my dad had his epiphany about the climate crisis, and sat me down and said, You got to do something, you've got young children - it's really gonna affect them. And I started looking around for a service that could help me on a personal level understand what I could do to measure, understand and reduce my carbon footprint. And I couldn't find anything. And so we built Pawprint. And initially, for consumers, but now we're building a business product, to allow businesses to engage their people on sustainability.

Will Richardson 01:13
And so it's a platform that helps organisations become more green.

Christian Arno 01:20
Yeah, yeah. And we're not going into the, you know, supply chains, manufacturing processes, investments, and so on, we're very much focused on people. So I guess we want mainstream consumers who care about doing their bit to do with climate change, to have a vehicle to make change personally, at work and beyond and to understand the underlying science, you know, the carbon dioxide equivalent numbers, and then to amplify their impact. That's the idea.

Will Richardson 01:52
Brilliant, and really pertinent at this present moment in time, really, with the fact that a lot of offices are closed, and businesses are still looking to be more sustainable. And their colleagues, staff in organisations are wanting to work and still want to work in a more sustainable business.

Christian Arno 02:21
Yeah, I think that it's been interesting during the whole sort of Covid crisis. You know, initially, questions were asked about how relevant we were because of people working for home, from home and so on. But I think what's happened is, the sustainability agenda has actually been advanced, because people are starting to question, you know, the type of world we want to live in the rules we want to play. And I want 2021, you know, to be a year when real change happens. And so we're seeing a lot of interest, and we just need to, you know, further develop the product and talk to more people about it.

Will Richardson 02:59
Brilliant. Yes. It's been so interesting as you know, what's happens. We were, I guess, kind of pretty normal when, in March when COVID happened, and then suddenly, it started getting busier and busier and busier. And, of course, I was freaking out. The beginning going, oh my words. I've got to pace people, people, you know, and then suddenly, it's like, oh, we're actually taking people on? And but it's just it's really, I don't know, I think it's just really refreshing to see that people are genuinely caring about sustainability now in the environment.

Christian Arno 03:39
Yeah, yeah. I think that's right. And there's a real sense of community spirit that we've seen through the crisis feels like that could be channelled to sustainability, as well. So, I think we were discussing slightly before we came on the podcast, that it's for people doing similar jobs to ours, it's really exciting period. It's also an intense period, and trying to make sure that we we move as fast as we can. So yeah.

Will Richardson 04:09
You said you meant you mentioned that you ran a translation company beforehand. And so having run that company and set up that company, do you have you found that it's been really useful in setting up Pawprint and working on Pawprint?

Christian Arno 04:31
Yeah, I think it has been useful. Because of the connections that I've I've made and also the things I learnt, you know, with my previous business, I probably recruited at two junior level initially, you know, brilliant, fantastic, enthusiastic people. But this time, I've tried to recruit senior people who I think can go the distance and can build sizable teams. And we're really trying to go fast because of the urgency of the mission, but also because from a business point of view, you know, businesses need it. And it's a hot space. So, but yeah, the experience with lingo certainly has made things a bit easier this time around.

Will Richardson 05:14
Brilliant. Yeah, I can imagine learning from mistakes, of which I've made plenty of them. What would you say your business superpower is?

Christian Arno 05:22
Oh goodness me! I wouldn't say I had a business superpower, Will, but um, I like I like talking to people and understanding, you know, what's gonna help them and gonna float their boat and things - I think I've got my mom's, you know, like, enjoyment of speaking to people. And that helps. You know, it's fun. And it helps uncover opportunities as well. So

Will Richardson 05:52
Can you tell us a bit about how you engage staff, suppliers or customers with your mission and purpose?

Christian Arno 06:00
Yes. So with the Pawprint for business proposition, the idea is that businesses subscribe effectively, and the pay per eligible employee, it's two pounds per eligible employee per month. And for that, the people have access to the tool to measure understand and reduce their pawprint, as we call it, and we're building it out so that the businesses can engage them a bit more, you know, whether that's customising challenges to the business, or building rewards, running competitions, looking for suggestions on how that business could be more equal, or even doing things like, you know, rate your business on a Donald's to greater scale and why to because because a lot of it, you know, we started off being very focused through our work with Mike berners Lee, on on measurement and reduction. But increasingly, we want to layer in the ability to really engage people, what is it that's going to, you know, make those people who have never really thought about their carbon footprint, start to not just think about it, but actually enjoy the game of bringing it down and talking about it. And that is so important. That's, I mean, the communications side of things is, is really important. Yeah, I think that's right. You know, there are many, many people in our research before we set up Pawprint prove this who are deeply concerned about climate change, and absolutely accept that people play it play a role in it and can make a difference, but just don't know where to where to start. So if we can make it easy for them, if we can make it not intimidating for them, then that's a good thing. And that's how we're using we've got this polar bear icon - beyond the bear. And the first thing he says to people in my head, at least is don't beat yourself up, because there's a lot of guilt associated with people's impact on the planet. And then and then he says, it's about small steps, and it's about what's right for you. So it should be a very soft, reassuring, and, and maybe even fun experience. That's the idea. Yeah, that's brilliant. No, that was really good. I think that client climate anxiety, and we've had a couple of coaches on the podcast, talking about climate anxiety, and I don't think I'd quite realised how many people are starting to feel it. And I guess it's the media and everything around us that is pummeling us. And for me, I've been pummelling for come out to 20 years on this probably before because that was just when I set up Green Element. So I think I'm almost dull to it, which is, which is possibly good or bad, I don;t know. Yeah. No, it is. I mean, it is scary. I can see a very quick path to being to become quite low about it. But I guess what we would like, you know, we'd like with pawprint is for that to feel like a positive vehicle, to bring people together to do something about it. And I think you and I are both part of a big movement of people who are doing various different things to the best of their ability that are positive. And we've got to a big believer in focusing on the positive. And it's so, so cool. How many, I don't know how many different, like, I would not have thought Pawprint would exist about, say even five I guess five years ago, 10 years ago. And you kind of look at it and look at what you're doing and go - blimey, it's such a no brainer. It's such a sensible approach to helping organisations and people become more sustainable and you are one of many different technologies and businesses and organisations that are really trying to garner that enthusiasm and that reject reduction environmental impact.

Christian Arno 10:11
Yeah, there's an exciting space opening up. And I think there are some people who are partnering, the sort of carbon footprint measurement with offsetting. There are some who are working on by helping people to buy better. And and our focus is on behavioural change. And I guess the other sort of differences, that we're really focusing increasingly on businesses, rather than trying to make money from consumers, which I think is a big ask. So that's where we feel we found a space where we can grow a sizable business and have as much impact as possible, which is the real motivator here.

Will Richardson 10:57
Yeah, no, it's brilliant. What's so what sort of projects are you working on at the moment? Well, the one that's in the public domain and, and has been a lot of fun and is big is the one with Brewdog. So brewdog are our first Pawprint pioneer, we've set up in another, we've launched their consumer to Pawprint.co.uk. And we've set up what we're calling the Pawprint pioneers programme, to allow businesses who want to engage the people in sustainability, to work with us on shaping the business product on exactly what that might mean. So brewdog are on board, we've got three or four other businesses going through legals, and we're looking for a few more to join. By the end of October, it may creep into November. Well, and in terms of what we're actually doing, and so the first thing was a relatively straightforward exercise. And brewdog wanted to double offset the pawprints the carbon footprints of their people and their dogs. And, and I think they're doing that through their brewdog forest. And so our task was to measure the carbon footprints of all of their people, and give them a number so that they could work out exactly how many trees that might need to be. So that's the sort of first application. Brilliant, I mean, not a bad company to have pioneering your organisation. Yeah, no, They are a phenomenal company. And they're very, very influential. They're willing to push the envelope. And you know, James Watt always was a an inspirational leader. So it's, it's fun to work with those guys. Yeah. Brilliant. Brilliant. Where do you see yourself going? Where do where do you see pawprints in the next few years? Well, we really want to double down on helping businesses of all different sorts of profiles, you know, where the other businesses who are going to pioneers are sort of bigger, more established. dare I say it more corporate than a brewdog. And so we want to get a really good spread of businesses, initially throughout the UK, and different, you know, worker profiles, and so on, to engage so that we can find a platform that - using behavioural science - can engage with many, many people and actually be useful to many, many people. And then I think we want to move on and move internationally, again, to maximise the impact, and because a lot of the businesses we're talking to already are, are international. And then I think there are questions around how the platform might evolve from there whether there are different ways in which we add value to different businesses around the data analysis side of what we might be able to do other services. Who knows Will? At the moment, we're very focused on this business offering where we're engaging people. That's it for now. Brilliant, and if you could offer one piece of advice to our listeners, which could help them with their purpose, what would that be?

14:22
With their purpose? So I actually struggled with this with my translation business, especially after it got complicated with bringing new people in, and so on. And I think there will be though in every organisation, a sort of founding purpose, whether that's around, the values, family values in the organisation or whatever. And so I think it's really useful to work with and I've worked with a coach in the past to help distil down -tracing, kicking back through your childhood and doing all sorts of psychoanalysis, what what is the what is your personal purpose. I believe that businesses, most businesses can trace it back to what their purposes is so, so maybe it's to work with a coach? Well, I'm not sure it's good question.

Will Richardson 15:18
I love the different answers that you get from that question. I remember we were talking about what questions to ask and and we kind of decided to ask certain questions to everyone. And I, if I'm being honest, was initially like, really? Boring. But actually, yes, the question is the same, but the answer is always different. Yeah.

Christian Arno 15:42
Yeah. I guess it's a great question. And it's such a personal thing, what your, what your purpose is? And and the route to finding it. But I think my, I guess my learning is that there's value in trying definitely learn a lot about yourself.

Will Richardson 15:55
yeah. have you carbon footprinted your organisation? And would you say that it's been a benefit? We have not actually, we're actually going through a B Corp application at the moment whereby we will formally do that. We need to do that, obviously, we've done all of our own personal Pawprints. And, but at the moment, as a business, we are, you know, all working from home, as far as I know, all on renewable energy supplies, powering our work. I should know that shouldn't I? And, and, and doing our bit, but that's, that's something we will do. And hopefully we can work with you on that. That's brilliant. You're going through the B Corp application. Yeah, I think that really well. I think that just, I know from experience that it kind of and being a young company going through it, it really moulds you in a particular direction, because you get restricted, and you have to make hard decisions. I remember about two years ago, we were not in a good space at all. And I was, I was actually looking at people on in the organisation. And we do do one day a month to a charity of your choice. And that is expensive, especially if you're bums on seat consultancy, which plainly what we have in the core business of Green Element is, and we got through it without needing to do anything. But there were decisions that could have been made. And it would have gone against the core structure of what we're trying to achieve. And I know B Corp had a lot to do with that. Yeah, those decisions. Great. No, yeah. And I think it's part of the theme that many businesses are sort of working through, which is that we have to move beyond, you know, big promises, and we really have to be walking the walk. And probably our businesses more than more than most. So. Yeah, yeah, it's a healthy pressure, I think as long as it's, you know. Yeah. As long as people aren't too judgmental with one another. That's one of the things that, you know. Yeah, I see. Do you think people are in this space? I find there's a huge amount of collaboration. And I think, if you're seen to be transparent and open, and you are, then people collaborate. I mean, I, we collaborate a lot of competition. Yeah. I love it. Love it. Yeah. And it makes life so much more exciting. Yeah, no, I guess I wasn't meaning so much in the industry, just some of the comments that you see, sometimes off some people on social media. I think that people should be recognised for the uniform for the positive things that they're doing and the good efforts they're making, rather than criticised if they can't do everything. And you know, not everyone can live a, you know, a five tonne lifestyle type thing. So yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, that does. Yeah, that doesn't make complete sense. I mean, what's the best way that we can connect with you and learn more. And so we are active on all social channels, Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter, and so on. So at Pawprint equal. Our website is www.pawprint.eco and we've got a list there, whereby we'd really encourage people to sign up and get involved in our community. We've got a community site ashlea community dot pawprint dot Ico, that we want to draw people into whether they've got a business interest. They're user enthusiasts or whether they're interested in investing. We we've done crowdfunding in the past. And we'll, we'll do that again, we'll because we really want this to feel like a, you know, a community and movement. And so... And your crowdfunding went really, really well, didn't it? It did go well and better than I expected. So we got, we've now got over 1,200 investors on board. And I think it's, it comes back to one of the things we talked about at the start, which is that, that that people want a business like this to succeed, they are, they are voting with their, with their investment money. And it's, it's great if it's more healthy pressure on us, but it's good. It's what we want. We nervous going into something like crowdfunding, and because I'm sure some of our listeners would have possibly thinking about it. And yeah, definitely, I think also, because we ended up doing it just after lockdown. And there was a question mark over whether it was morally, you know, acceptable for us to be going and asking people for money about climate change, when when you know, people are suffering because of COVID. I got one email actually, from someone who lives not to one of the other dads at my kids school saying, I still want you to do it, because I need something that gives me a bit of hope. And that sort of made me feel. Yeah. shiver down my spine. Yeah, yeah. I mean, so we did it. And, definitely, the response that we got proved that it was the right thing to do. Full respect to you for doing it for doing it full stop. And for doing it at that time, I've heard just not horror stories, but how hard it is, and how hard you have to work. It's not. Because I know, I was looking at it at one point. And everyone kept on going, well, it's not you literally, it's a full time job is you're not going to do anything else. Other than that, and you will live and breathe it for months.

Christian Arno 22:06
Yeah, it's true. It is hardcore. And you have lots of conversations with people with very different perspectives and so on. But I think it's part and parcel of building a community and a business at scale. And I'm really glad we did it. And as I say, I think we're going to do it again, why not? We're going to do it again. And I think we'll do it repeatedly. Because it's, it's it's so good for getting people on board and getting feedback on, on what we're trying to do.

Will Richardson 22:40
Yeah. Brilliant. Well, Christian, thank you so much for being on today. It's been really, really interesting and fascinating listening to Pawprints and what you're up to, and what you're trying to achieve. Pleasure well and, you know, huge respect for what you're doing with Green Element and with Compare Your Footprint and looking forward to working with you on multiple projects and future I hope. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Thank you. All right. Cheers.